TWO BASS FOR RI CHARTER AND PARTY BOATS?

[buckman]

Originally Posted by Linesider82

^^^ couldn't agree more ^^^
No one in the history of fishing has ever said if I don't catch fish I'll never fish again.

Also there is nothing stopping anyone from catching a limit and still targeting the same species. If you are an owner/ operator and your business model is to limit out then drive your fares back to the slip, then your business model is flawed with greed alone.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

That isn't what I said . Reread
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[ivanputski]

Buckman... Your arguments are always about whats best for charter captains financially.

The majority of our arguments are about whats best for the bass population.

When my car starts making a strange noise, i dont turn up my stereo to fix the problem.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[buckman]

Originally Posted by ivanputski

Buckman... Your arguments are always about whats best for charter captains financially.

The majority of our arguments are about whats best for the bass population.

When my car starts making a strange noise, i dont turn up my stereo to fix the problem.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

My argument is about being able to accomplish both the targeted reduction and helping charter boats survive a nearly impossible hand they have be dealt through no fault of there own .
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[ivanputski]

Did you happen to glance over towards block island this past summer?
Charter boats couldnt make the round trip with a new group fast enough.
No fault of their own? I have photos of the racks a single boat dumped at a launch this summer in 2 trips that made even my immigrant meat- fisherman father sick.
I gotta take a break and stop arguing the obvious before my blood pressure gets any higher
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[buckman]

Originally Posted by ivanputski

Did you happen to glance over towards block island this past summer?
Charter boats couldnt make the round trip with a new group fast enough.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

That's not what we have in our area and not the way every charter I know operates . It's either half day or full day . Limit or not
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[big jay]

Originally Posted by buckman

A lot of experts here but nobody really understands marketing. It's all about the perception and then sell the experience. Nobody's going on a six pack charter with the anticipation and excitement of catching 1/ 28 inch bass .
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Have to disagree with you on that one.
I know the reductions in daily limits have killed the green harbor cod business (hurt us too - at one time we spent March and April at Taylors running trips for Bigfish), but Striper charters are a different beast. Customers that take bass charters are generally not meat fisherman that travel up from NJ in white vans and try to justify their trip based one the pounds of fillet they take home with them. I find most of our clients want to take home fillets, but that's not the sole purpose of the trip (like Cod guys).
I really believe this, and its not like I'm some fly-rodding fish hugger - I'm normally on here explaining why commercial harvest is a good thing.
And for background, we're booked for bass trips 7 days a week all season. As long as the states stick together on 1 fish, we won't see a decline in charters.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[ivanputski]

Originally Posted by big jay

As long as the states stick together on 1 fish, we won't see a decline in charters.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Thank you big jay!!! Exactly!
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Piscator]

Originally Posted by Nebe

Much better analogy!!!!
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

I sort of meant that the end result is you banged a 10... Just got there different ways...like the equivalency argument...just lighting up the thread a bit..now banging two 7's vs one 10 is a completly different ball game
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[buckman]

Originally Posted by big jay

Have to disagree with you on that one.
I know the reductions in daily limits have killed the green harbor cod business (hurt us too - at one time we spent March and April at Taylors running trips for Bigfish), but Striper charters are a different beast. Customers that take bass charters are generally not meat fisherman that travel up from NJ in white vans and try to justify their trip based one the pounds of fillet they take home with them. I find most of our clients want to take home fillets, but that's not the sole purpose of the trip (like Cod guys).
I really believe this, and its not like I'm some fly-rodding fish hugger - I'm normally on here explaining why commercial harvest is a good thing.
And for background, we're booked for bass trips 7 days a week all season. As long as the states stick together on 1 fish, we won't see a decline in charters.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Obviously you have marketed well and provide a great experience for your charters . One thing often done too is to combine shark or tuna with striper on full days .
However there obviously are quite a few captains that feel this could really hurt them and if it won't hurt the recovery , which I believe it won't , then why gamble with their livelihood ? I guess I'm just a compassionate guy
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Linesider82]

Originally Posted by buckman

Two fish over 33" a day for every client including mate and crew isn't going to happen and any captain that tells you he can do it day after day is full of crap .
A lot of experts here but nobody really understands marketing. It's all about the perception and then sell the experience. Nobody's going on a six pack charter with the anticipation and excitement of catching 1/ 28 inch bass .
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Reread, and you are right. No one wants to keep a 28" bass and especially just one. It's small and doesn't yield much meat.

But it's a greater than 28" scenario, and it has been done before.

The unfortunate perception of the non fishing public is that the industry delivers 2 fish. The sentence that follows that statement which is unknown by the public is that it is ecologically sound to do so.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[buckman]

Originally Posted by Piscator

I sort of meant that the end result is you banged a 10... Just got there different ways...like the equivalency argument...just lighting up the thread a bit..now banging two 7's vs one 10 is a completly different ball game
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Ahhhhhh since you put it that way 👍
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[ivanputski]

Originally Posted by buckman
"A lot of experts here but nobody really understands marketing."

Buckman, imagine what a marketing expert you will have to become if the population continues to decline...

I'm not taking any pleasure in arguing with you, i just want to try to get you to see beyond your next season of charters.

a healthy bass population with customers catching fish, having fun, taking photos, and still taking a keeper each home to eat is a much better marketing strategy than trying to spin multiple skunkings because the population has been hammered into minimal numbers.

When fish are present to be caught, everyone wins. Clearly, people go fishing for the experience first and foremost... the meat is the bonus... I mean, who pays hundreds of dollars for 4 fillets??? its the experience they primarily went out for!

its foolish to ignore the decline of the bass population because you are worried about captains who cant figure out how to make a day of fishing appear fun to attract customers.

Big Jay hit the nail on the head...

[Nebe]

Imagine what would have happened if the charter captains and the pin hookers got their way in the 80's and there was no moratorium. We might be arguing about bluefish instead. No more bass.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[ivanputski]

"Stop trying to put me out of business and help protect my right to continue to eliminate the very source of my income"

- a charter captain

[big jay]

Originally Posted by Nebe

Imagine what would have happened if the charter captains and the pin hookers got their way in the 80's and there was no moratorium. We might be arguing about bluefish instead. No more bass.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Easy with the cheezy rhetoric Eben - there were as many Charter Captains and PinHookers that made sacrifices back then as anyone.
Heck, all the guys that wax nostalgically about the good old day, even the ones that are now ardent conservationists sold fish back then.

(Wouldn't want people to think I'm going soft).
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[buckman]

Originally Posted by ivanputski

"Stop trying to put me out of business and help protect my right to continue to eliminate the very source of my income"

- a charter captain

Very dramatic but way off base.

Here's where I see how the differences in opinion lie .
1) I believe two fish at 33 inches will result in significantly less fish killed by charterboats
2) I believe, at least in my area, that going to one fish at 28 inches will result in a significant loss of business.
3) I believe the targeted 25% reduction will be attained and will significantly improve the health of the striped bass population.
4) I don't believe the doom and gloom outlook on the future of the striped bass if the targeted 25% reduction takes place.
5) I believe in figuring peoples livelihoods and their families into the equation .
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Slipknot]

Originally Posted by buckman

Nobody's going on a six pack charter with the anticipation and excitement of catching 1/ 28 inch bass .
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

That is simply NOT true



I understand that if it is decided to allow 2 @33" then there is no sure bet that clients will get to catch 2 over 33" since it might be a bit more difficult to catch the larger size bass all depending on so many factors, location, weather,bait in the area, structure etc. but being on the water daily has it's advantages. It also is going to be harder to find the concentrations of bass seeing how there are fewer than there were just 5 years ago and that is a fact not an argument here.

I was at the meeting where almost unanimously 1 fish was voted on, only one guy was for 2

I thought there was another large meeting where it was decided 1 fish 28" coastwide but that was not final. Are they somehow going to flip now? pathetic

Again, going to 1 fish for all recs is NOT going to put anyone out of business
we all participated in the decline, we all need to participate in recovery. I am not buying that conservational equivalency crap, that is scientific voodoo bull.

[Slipknot]

Originally Posted by thefishingfreak

The didn't pass 1@28"
They passed 25%.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

I know they passed the 25% reduction, but the other part of how they get there I thought was determined or is that how they are going to screw this up? I think there were a lot of people that saw this coming. I say fire them all.

[Slipknot]

Originally Posted by buckman

My argument is about being able to accomplish both the targeted reduction and helping charter boats survive a nearly impossible hand they have be dealt through no fault of there own .
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

right, sure no fault of their own. ?????
well they certainly were participants in the fault of everyone, year after year of 2 fish limits has put a strain on the bass population there is no denying that so you are wrong again, unless your words are being read wrong. Did spence take over your keyboard?

[MakoMike]

Originally Posted by striperswiper75

Does NY really believe people are going to drive all the way to RI for the chance at a second fish? I don't think many people from CT would even do that. If the differential was 5:1 then maybe people would make the drive, but 2:1 ratio the expenses of the additional travel eliminate the competitive advantage.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

For most New Yorkers the trip to RI is about the same as the trip to Montauk.

[buckman]

Originally Posted by Slipknot

right, sure no fault of their own. ?????
well they certainly were participants in the fault of everyone, year after year of 2 fish limits has put a strain on the bass population there is no denying that so you are wrong again, unless your words are being read wrong. Did spence take over your keyboard?

I was talking about the other species such as cod not stripers .

They can't take another hit this year .
That's why they are asking for a different option , that will achieve ghe same objective but not hurt business .
Which I believe 1@28 is likely to do .
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[MakoMike]

Originally Posted by buckman

Obviously you have marketed well and provide a great experience for your charters . One thing often done too is to combine shark or tuna with striper on full days .

Can't do it, unless you save the striped bass fishing for the end of the day. Its illegal to possess striped bass in Federal waters.

[big jay]

^^Pretty typical in our area Mike. Troll Bluefin in the morning on Stellwagen or P-Hill, and then swing inside to P-town for the afternoon tide.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Clammer]

WELL i,VE BEEN KINDA JUST WATCHING THIS POST .............. IMO no matter what you use as numbers or percentages ..................... 1 & 1 is two // 2 / to more dead bass

as far as 2 @ 33 that will be business as usual to the charter fleet at the block ................how often do they catch fish UNDER 33"

Once they finish the fish kill at the Block .will it really matter by then ..................... where will they go to keep on killing . they will just speed up the end to their business .................................. OH BTW that doesn,t matter to [some] of the them ............like the head of the charter association ........who is really pushing for the two fish ..............this is is part time job for him along with selling the catch .he does have a commercial R&R license ........................he has a full time job with great benefits

&& no chance of a layoff or going out of business when its the WFD ><><><

[zacs]

best post of the thread, Clammer.

1 fish is 1.
2 is 2.

2>1

The rational behind the conservational equivalency is questionable at best.

More fish will be killed if they allow 2 @ 33. Is there anyone is this thread that disagrees with that?

[buckman]

Originally Posted by zacs

best post of the thread, Clammer.

1 fish is 1.
2 is 2.

2>1

The rational behind the conservational equivalency is questionable at best.

More fish will be killed if they allow 2 @ 33. Is there anyone is this thread that disagrees with that?

I do
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[chrisjoe13]

Lets not forget that the AMSFC did not account for ANY by-catch or "black market" fish (lots of dead fish) and their numbers are more then 2 years old..

Due to this, their percentage reduction chart is probably grossly underestimated.

We need to do as much as we can and as soon as possible.

[thefishingfreak]

Originally Posted by zacs

More fish will be killed if they allow 2 @ 33. Is there anyone is this thread that disagrees with that?
[/B]

I do.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Nebe]

Originally Posted by thefishingfreak

I do.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

ZacS is probably thinking about the block island charter slaughter zone at the southwest corner. A fishery that has remained somewhat the same while inshore areas have been devoid of schools of bass. This is also why NY might be following RI's lead because so many montauk boats fish southwest ledge.. The average fish caught here is 30 pounds and this is why 28" or 34" makes no difference. It's one fish killed vs 2 fish killed 2 to 3 times a day per paying customer.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by buckman

I do
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Originally Posted by thefishingfreak

I do.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

The only way less fish will be killed is if you guys don't put your charters on fish over 33". Just wondering - are most of the fish your charters catch under 33"?