34 shot

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Federal Officers Deployed By Trump Admin Are “Kidnapping” Protesters In Portland


Only Trump supporters think this is ok... but still insisting hes not an authoritarian leader ..

Local police should be allowed (and directed) to handle it , right?

Originally Posted by spence

Chicago has a gang problem, Portland's biggest problem is Trump's secret police.

Local police should be allowed (and directed) to handle it , right?

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

There you go again, going off the rails, ever wonder why nobody ever invites you to go fishing with them
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I'm told he is just bad luck ; )

[spence]

Originally Posted by JohnR

Local police should be allowed (and directed) to handle it , right?

It sounds like the amount of vandalism hasn't been that widespread. The local police were handling it but also infringing on the rights of the majority of peaceful protesters. Since the secret police have shown up it looks like it has gotten a lot worse.

This is mostly a PR stunt, potentially illegal and people are getting hurt because of it.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by spence

It sounds like the amount of vandalism hasn't been that widespread. The local police were handling it but also infringing on the rights of the majority of peaceful protesters. Since the secret police have shown up it looks like it has gotten a lot worse.

This is mostly a PR stunt, potentially illegal and people are getting hurt because of it.

this is idiotic...but go ahead

[Pete F.]

Tweety's plan to demonstrate that he is a law and order guy by instituting a national police force is pretty scary.

“A standing military force with an overgrown executive will not long be safe companions to liberty,” James Madison told the Constitutional Convention. “The means of defense against foreign danger have been always the instruments of tyranny at home.”

Riot control is nothing new and attacking a crowd typically does nothing other than add a new thing (the police) they are against in addition to their original objective. In this case since police are viewed as the original problem by protesters, the very people that protesters are concerned about are validating their opinions by attacking them.

There are proven methods that have been used for years, nothing works perfectly but the attack method has been proven to have a great chance to escalate and spread the problem.

https://leb.fbi.gov/articles/feature...a-new-paradigm

[nightfighter]

I reached out via email to an old college girlfriend who lives in Portland. She always was crunchy granola type, but here is a condensed version of her response;

We are a feisty bunch- and rebellious and independent. And so we do not want the !@#$%^&*( Feds messing with our protests. Yes we are fine - we are all at home! Although my daughter and I are going to go join the wall of moms that are lining up to protect the protestors. There are the protestors (good) and the rioters (bad)- but the Feds being here is very bad news PDX will not back down. Our city is a mess though- all boarded up and graffiti everywhere....tough times


This is from a well educated 60 year old Oregon native woman, with adult kids, who has lived abroad in Asia as her husband's job in finance took them to many financial capitals and last I knew, he was with the Federal Reserve... Not what I expected, but that is my ground zero report.... My response simply pointed out their plan of action had some glaring holes in it.... like bring a water bottle to a gunfight.

On a different note, my new 2A4life shoulder holster has shipped!

[scottw]

Originally Posted by nightfighter

Our city is a mess though- all boarded up and graffiti everywhere....tough times

[spence]

Originally Posted by nightfighter

I reached out via email to an old college girlfriend who lives in Portland. She always was crunchy granola type, but here is a condensed version of her response;

We are a feisty bunch- and rebellious and independent. And so we do not want the !@#$%^&*( Feds messing with our protests. Yes we are fine - we are all at home! Although my daughter and I are going to go join the wall of moms that are lining up to protect the protestors. There are the protestors (good) and the rioters (bad)- but the Feds being here is very bad news PDX will not back down. Our city is a mess though- all boarded up and graffiti everywhere....tough times

I spoke with several friends in Seattle and they had a similar perspective on the CHOP. Although the mom response in Portland is pretty remarkable.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by spence

Although the mom response in Portland is pretty remarkable.

they didn't want their little juvenile delinquents to get arrested...doesn't make them good parents or model citizens

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Tweety's plan to demonstrate that he is a law and order guy by instituting a national police force is pretty scary.

“A standing military force with an overgrown executive will not long be safe companions to liberty,” James Madison told the Constitutional Convention. “The means of defense against foreign danger have been always the instruments of tyranny at home.”

Riot control is nothing new and attacking a crowd typically does nothing other than add a new thing (the police) they are against in addition to their original objective. In this case since police are viewed as the original problem by protesters, the very people that protesters are concerned about are validating their opinions by attacking them.

There are proven methods that have been used for years, nothing works perfectly but the attack method has been proven to have a great chance to escalate and spread the problem.

https://leb.fbi.gov/articles/feature...a-new-paradigm

They are not a standing military force. They are federal agents from DHS and other federal law enforcement departmens. And they are protecting federal property and federal personnel, not the entire city. They are not there to stop the rioting or clean up the city of crime. They are there to protect federal property from vandalization and destruction by the rioters, and to protect federal personnel.

[nightfighter]

Originally Posted by detbuch

They are not a standing military force. They are federal agents from DHS and other federal law enforcement departmens. And they are protecting federal property and federal personnel, not the entire city. They are not there to stop the rioting or clean up the city of crime. They are there to protect federal property from vandalization and destruction by the rioters, and to protect federal personnel.

Do you have a list of the federal properties they are protecting? Or perhaps a statement of their specific mission? Just asking as this would be value added to the discussion for those of us trying to make a value judgement from thousands of miles away.

[nightfighter]

And, getting back to what I believe was the OP; Whoever or what side made the dumbass decision to release violent convicted felons from incarceration due to concerns about COVID 19, has a lot of answering to do... as well as a lot of blood on their hands. The Boston Police Commish came right out with this very point as being the source of the recent increase in shootings in his city.

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by nightfighter

Do you have a list of the federal properties they are protecting? Or perhaps a statement of their specific mission? Just asking as this would be value added to the discussion for those of us trying to make a value judgement from thousands of miles away.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/n...deral-property

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by detbuch

They are not a standing military force. They are federal agents from DHS and other federal law enforcement departments. And they are protecting federal property and federal personnel, not the entire city. They are not there to stop the rioting or clean up the city of crime. They are there to protect federal property from vandalization and destruction by the rioters, and to protect federal personnel.

So then you are claiming they are just the Graffiti Gestapo.
The jackbooted thugs that the right has claimed for years will take away your rights with no due process or recourse have arrived and they are the President's men.
They have snatched people off the streets of the city, refused to identify themselves, and detained people without charges.
The local elected politicians have asked them to leave, all of the sudden you claim that the man who is not responsible for the safety of American citizens in the case of a virus is responsible for the prevention of property crimes throughout the States.

Chad Wolf, who has not been confirmed by the Senate to serve in the job he has held since he replaced another Acting Secretary of Homeland Security last November, went to Portland last week to personally oversee the operation. He claims that the officers are targeting “violent anarchists” who he blames for spray-painting graffiti on some federal buildings (while stretching the definition of “violent” beyond all logic).

Ask yourself, just what crime did this man commit?

Everything he did was within his First Amendment rights and he was assaulted by the Graffiti Gestapo.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Tweety's plan to demonstrate that he is a law and order guy by instituting a national police force is pretty scary.

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So tell us, the president is supposed to do nothing when state officials choose not to ensure public safety, and worse, actively side with the violent mob?

When the supreme court ordered Arkansas schools desegregated, the Arkansas governor ordered the National Guard to keep blacks out of the white school. Eisenhower immediately sent in the 101st Airborne, armed to the teeth, to march the black students past the National Guardsmen.

Pete, was Ike wrong to do so?

[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

So tell us, the president is supposed to do nothing when state officials choose not to ensure public safety, and worse, actively side with the violent mob?

When the supreme court ordered Arkansas schools desegregated, the Arkansas governor ordered the National Guard to keep blacks out of the white school. Eisenhower immediately sent in the 101st Airborne, armed to the teeth, to march the black students past the National Guardsmen.

Pete, was Ike wrong to do so?

Based on the request from the local authority to provide assistance.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

Based on the request from the local authority to provide assistance.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

the governor was the one
ordering the
national guard to
ensure
continued racism.

do you have any evidence that ike only did what he did, because locals
asked?

in the case of the riots, in some cases,,local authorities are clearly siding with the rioters. so they aren’t going to then ask for federal help.

the president doesn’t have the responsibility to protect citizens at home? do you really believe that? or only when the rioters are liberal and the president is a republican?
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