Herd immunity is not a strategy, it is a biological fact

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

https://assets.documentcloud.org/doc...c-Playbook.pdf

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

right the timing was a coincidence

and pelosi trying to pass a bill which would
have reversed the travel ban, what do you call that?

and biden waiting until april
to say that travel bans were a good idea? wasn’t that way too late?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Janurary 27th 2020 OpEd by Biden in USA Today

The possibility of a pandemic is a challenge Donald Trump is unqualified to handle as president. I remember how Trump sought to stoke fear and stigma during the 2014 Ebola epidemic. He called President Barack Obama a “dope” and “incompetent” and railed against the evidence-based response our administration put in place — which quelled the crisis and saved hundreds of thousands of lives — in favor of reactionary travel bans that would only have made things worse. He advocated abandoning exposed and infected American citizens rather than bringing them home for treatment.

Trump’s demonstrated failures of judgment and his repeated rejection of science make him the worst possible person to lead our country through a global health challenge.

The outbreak of a new coronavirus, which has already infected more than 2,700 people and killed over 80 in China, will get worse before it gets better. Cases have been confirmed in a dozen countries, with at least five in the United States. There will likely be more.

Diseases don't stop at borders or walls
The State Department has scheduled an evacuation flight and advised Americans against traveling to Hubei province, the epicenter of the outbreak, and is evacuating non-essential personnel.

Trump has blithely tweeted that “it will all work out well.” Yet the steps he has taken as president have only weakened our capacity to respond.

Trump has rolled back much of the progress President Obama and I made to strengthen global health security. He proposed draconian cuts to the National Institutes of Health (NIH), the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and the Agency for International Development — the very agencies we need to fight this outbreak and prevent future ones.

He dismissed the top White House official in charge of global health security and dismantled the entire team. And he has treated with utmost contempt institutions that facilitate international cooperation, thus undermining the global efforts that keep us safe from pandemics and biological attacks.

To be blunt, I am concerned that the Trump administration’s shortsighted policies have left us unprepared for a dangerous epidemic that will come sooner or later.

Pandemic diseases are a prime example of why international cooperation is a requirement of leadership in 2020. Diseases do not stop at borders. They cannot be thwarted by building a wall. We cannot keep ourselves safe without helping to keep others safe as well and without enlisting the help of other nations in return. And here’s the truth — the United States must step forward to lead these efforts, because no other nation has the resources, the reach or the relationships to marshal an effective international response.

That’s how we broke the infection curve on Ebola. In September 2014, CDC projections warned that over 1 million people could be infected if we failed to act. By February 2015, thanks to the leadership of our administration, the number of new Ebola cases was fewer than 400. A few months later, the epidemic was essentially extinguished.

I will uphold science, not fiction or fear
We brought the world together behind a response that only the United States could mobilize — including dispatching our military on a limited mission to help build the urgent infrastructure necessary to coordinate a massive global public health response, deploying American disaster assistance response teams to Africa, unleashing the NIH to help spur the discovery of new treatments and vaccines, protecting our citizens from potential cases of Ebola in the USA, and harnessing civilian expertise from the CDC at home and abroad.

We acted over the chorus of uninformed objections from critics like Donald Trump, and more than 60 countries followed our lead, contributing over $2 billion, thousands of health professionals and personnel, and other critical resources like personal protective equipment. Just as important, we strengthened our focus on preparing for the next crisis.

That’s the kind of leadership a moment like this demands — a leadership Trump could never deliver.

As president, I will reassert U.S. leadership in global health security. My policies will always uphold science, not fiction or fearmongering. I will ask Congress to beef up the Public Health Emergency Fund and give me the power to use the Stafford Disaster Relief and Emergency Assistance Act to declare a disaster if an infectious disease threat merits it.

I will also renew funding — set to expire in May — for the nationwide network of hospitals that can isolate and treat people with infectious diseases, and fully fund the Global Health Security Agenda so the world is ready for the next outbreak. And I will rebuild public trust, make sure we have dedicated resources to help us respond to crises quickly, and better harness the capabilities of the private sector to protect the American people. Our national security requires nothing less.

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Then please provide the information I missed, so that we can have the complete picture.

Even Chris Cuomo attacked Pelosi for this. But you can't. You're more extremely partisan than he is. Kudos. But you don't have a side, no sir.

Originally Posted by Pete F.

The No Ban Act had a narrow exception that allows the president to institute travel bans during public health crises, including the current pandemic

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

I don't forget that. I never, ever said that his travel ban was effective. What I said, is that Biden said the ban was hysterical and xenophobic.

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Whew. I'm not saying the travel ban was good. I'm saying that if liberals said then that it was an overreaction, they can't say today that Trump should have done more. You can't have it both ways.

Going too fast for you?

I think you are going too fast for yourself

Biden dealt with Covita's hysterical xenophobic response during the Ebola pandemic. It's all in the public record including Covita's tweets.
Nobody said a travel ban was an overreaction, just that it alone was not the correct response and apparently you agree.
It had as much effect as designating one part of the pool as the urination area.
If you want to see a detailed pandemic plan I linked it several posts ago, Covita literally threw his in the garbage.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

I think you are going too fast for yourself

Biden dealt with Covita's hysterical xenophobic response during the Ebola pandemic. It's all in the public record including Covita's tweets.
Nobody said a travel ban was an overreaction, just that it alone was not the correct response and apparently you agree.
It had as much effect as designating one part of the pool as the urination area.
If you want to see a detailed pandemic plan I linked it several posts ago, Covita literally threw his in the garbage.

"Biden dealt with Covita's hysterical xenophobic response during the Ebola pandemic. It's all in the public record including Covita's tweets."

Thw day Trump announced his travel restrictions, Biden said Trump was hysterical and xenophobic. Also public record. Right?

"Nobody said a travel ban was an overreaction"

Biden said it was "hysterical".

In mid-January, the WHO said there was no evidence of human-to-human transmission.

Nancy Pelosi on Feb 24: "but we do want to say to people ‘Come to Chinatown, here we are — we're, again, careful, safe — and come join us.'”

Bill Diblasio in March 2: ""Since I’m encouraging New Yorkers to go on with your lives + get out on the town despite Coronavirus"

Anderson Cooper on March 2: "The flu right now is far deadlier," Cooper says. "So if you’re freaked out at all about the coronavirus you should be more concerned about the flu"

Mar.9 - Bernie Sanders tells Foxnews he would not close our borders in response to the virus

Dr Fauci on Jan 26: "The American people should not be worried or frightened by this. It's a very, very low risk to the United States," Fauci says on The CATS Roundtable. "It isn't something that the American public needs to worry about or be frightened about."

Feb. 11 - Ron Klein, Biden campaign top coronovirus advisor: "coronavirus won't be a "serious pandemic."

Feb. 13 - Ron Klein, Biden campaign top coronovirus advisor: "We don’t have a #COVIDー19 epidemic in the US but we are starting to see a fear epidemic. Kudos to @NYCMayor (and others) for standing against that."

Nah, no one was downplaying it in the winter. Nope! Only Trump somehow got it wrong. All the democrats knew exactly what was coming. Right, Pete?

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/fro...vent-aged-well

[RIROCKHOUND]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

"Biden dealt with Covita's hysterical xenophobic response during the Ebola pandemic. It's all in the public record including Covita's tweets."

Thw day Trump announced his travel restrictions, Biden said Trump was hysterical and xenophobic. Also public record. Right?

"Nobody said a travel ban was an overreaction"

Biden said it was "hysterical".

In mid-January, the WHO said there was no evidence of human-to-human transmission.

Nancy Pelosi on Feb 24: "but we do want to say to people ‘Come to Chinatown, here we are — we're, again, careful, safe — and come join us.'”

Bill Diblasio in March 2: ""Since I’m encouraging New Yorkers to go on with your lives + get out on the town despite Coronavirus"

Anderson Cooper on March 2: "The flu right now is far deadlier," Cooper says. "So if you’re freaked out at all about the coronavirus you should be more concerned about the flu"

Mar.9 - Bernie Sanders tells Foxnews he would not close our borders in response to the virus

Dr Fauci on Jan 26: "The American people should not be worried or frightened by this. It's a very, very low risk to the United States," Fauci says on The CATS Roundtable. "It isn't something that the American public needs to worry about or be frightened about."

Feb. 11 - Ron Klein, Biden campaign top coronovirus advisor: "coronavirus won't be a "serious pandemic."

Feb. 13 - Ron Klein, Biden campaign top coronovirus advisor: "We don’t have a #COVIDー19 epidemic in the US but we are starting to see a fear epidemic. Kudos to @NYCMayor (and others) for standing against that."

Nah, no one was downplaying it in the winter. Nope! Only Trump somehow got it wrong. All the democrats knew exactly what was coming. Right, Pete?

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/fro...vent-aged-well

Simple answer. Trump was right on the partial travel ban, maybe it should have gone further

The liberals listed were wrong at the times you quoted.

This was in the first months of this #^&#^&#^&#^&. We know from Woodward's recording Trump knew early, this had the potential to be bad. How much did the mayors and governors know in Feb/early March? I don't know. We know Trump knew it could be bad.

The difference is, the others (non-Trump) have adjusted course as we learned more about this thing. Trump has basically not. We are at all time daily highs on an upwards sloped and we have 'turned the corner'? (I don't love the SNL debate-stuff right now but Alec Baldwin as Trump had a good line about how this isn't a second wave because it never went back down). He is also out there making fun of mask and mask wearers. Yes there is still reasonable debate on that Jim, but the majority/plurality/consensus is that it seems to help limit spread.

USA Today even had an analysis that following Trump campaign rally's/events brought, cases have increased higher in those counties than elsewhere.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND

Simple answer. Trump was right on the partial travel ban, maybe it should have gone further

The liberals listed were wrong at the times you quoted.

This was in the first months of this #^&#^&#^&#^&. We know from Woodward's recording Trump knew early, this had the potential to be bad. How much did the mayors and governors know in Feb/early March? I don't know. We know Trump knew it could be bad.

The difference is, the others (non-Trump) have adjusted course as we learned more about this thing. Trump has basically not. We are at all time daily highs on an upwards sloped and we have 'turned the corner'? (I don't love the SNL debate-stuff right now but Alec Baldwin as Trump had a good line about how this isn't a second wave because it never went back down). He is also out there making fun of mask and mask wearers. Yes there is still reasonable debate on that Jim, but the majority/plurality/consensus is that it seems to help limit spread.

USA Today even had an analysis that following Trump campaign rally's/events brought, cases have increased higher in those counties than elsewhere.

"The liberals listed were wrong at the times you quoted.
"

Literally, the only democrat here who can bring himself to say that. I respect that.

"We know Trump knew it could be bad. "

What should he have done in March, which he has the authority to do?

"the others (non-Trump) have adjusted course as we learned more about this thing."

Is Trump not now suggesting social distancing, masks, etc? Did he not get hospital ships and ventilators in CA and NY? Did the feds convert the Javits center in NY to a hospital?

"there is still reasonable debate on that (masks) Jim, but the majority/plurality/consensus is that it seems to help limit spread. "

Again, I agree 100% with your statement, and I also lean in favor of the guys who say masks help, and I wear one every time I go out. Again, you're the only liberal who can concede that there are studies questioning the value of masks. I don't buy into those studies, but I admit they exist. Only you can agree they exist.

I absolutely don't give Trump a good grade on his handling of the virus, and I never said I did. But I don't see specific policies that most people suggested, which he ignored, except for masks I guess, which I think he was reckless on. But isn't he now sayong to wear masks?

Bryan, in January, I thought we needed major lockdowns. I was terrified that seniors all over the country would die for lack of ventilators, that hospitals would be overwhelmed. None of that happened.

200k is a staggering, appalling number. If a consensus of experts was begging Trump in January to do something he didn't do, I'd agree much of this is on him. I don't see evidence that's the case. Maybe he was too casual in his words, but I don't take those cues from him or any president. Mt family (we are in CT) locked down in the spring, only went out when necessary, wore masks, stayed 10 feet away, sanitized our hands 25 times a day. Trump didn't tell me not to do those things.

Gov Cuomo ordered nursing homes (nursing homes of all places!) to admit covid-19 residents, when most nursing homes aren't anything close to a hospital. How many died as a direct result of that? And none of that is on Trump. And everyone on the left gives Cuomo a pass.

As I have said so many times, thanks for being the voice of reason and honesty on the left. Have a good afternoon, and stay safe.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

"Biden dealt with Covita's hysterical xenophobic response during the Ebola pandemic. It's all in the public record including Covita's tweets."

Thw day Trump announced his travel restrictions, Biden said Trump was hysterical and xenophobic. Also public record. Right?

Here is what Biden said "We have, right now, a crisis with the coronavirus. This is no time for Donald Trump's record of hysteria and xenophobia - hysterical xenophobia - and fearmongering to lead the way instead of science."

"Nobody said a travel ban was an overreaction"

Biden said it was "hysterical".

See above

In mid-January, the WHO said there was no evidence of human-to-human transmission.

President Trump’s head popped up during his top-secret intelligence briefing in the Oval Office on Jan. 28 when the discussion turned to the coronavirus outbreak in China.

“This will be the biggest national security threat you face in your presidency,” national security adviser Robert C. O’Brien told Trump, “This is going to be the roughest thing you face.”

Matthew Pottinger, the deputy national security adviser, agreed. He told the president that after reaching contacts in China, it was evident that the world faced a health emergency on par with the flu pandemic of 1918, which killed an estimated 50 million people worldwide.

Ten days later, Trump called Woodward and revealed that he thought the situation was far more dire than what he had been saying publicly.

“You just breathe the air and that’s how it’s passed,” Trump said in a Feb. 7 call. “And so that’s a very tricky one. That’s a very delicate one. It’s also more deadly than even your strenuous flus.”
“This is deadly stuff,” the president repeated for emphasis.

In a Feb. 7 interview, when asked what Chinese President Xi Jinping
told him about the virus, Trump says, “This is deadly stuff.”

At that time, Trump was telling the nation that the virus was no worse than a seasonal flu, predicting it would soon disappear and insisting that the U.S. government had it totally under control. It would be several weeks before he would publicly acknowledge that the virus was no ordinary flu and that it could be transmitted through the air.

When on Feb. 7th Covita told Bob Woodward how dangerous it was, maybe if he had said that to others things would have been different.

It was not until March 11th that he spoke "My fellow Americans: Tonight, I want to speak with you about our nation's unprecedented response to the coronavirus outbreak that started in China and is now spreading throughout the world."

Nancy Pelosi on Feb 24: "but we do want to say to people ‘Come to Chinatown, here we are — we're, again, careful, safe — and come join us.'”

Bill Diblasio in March 2: ""Since I’m encouraging New Yorkers to go on with your lives + get out on the town despite Coronavirus"

Anderson Cooper on March 2: "The flu right now is far deadlier," Cooper says. "So if you’re freaked out at all about the coronavirus you should be more concerned about the flu"

Mar.9 - Bernie Sanders tells Foxnews he would not close our borders in response to the virus

Dr Fauci on Jan 26: "The American people should not be worried or frightened by this. It's a very, very low risk to the United States," Fauci says on The CATS Roundtable. "It isn't something that the American public needs to worry about or be frightened about."

Feb. 11 - Ron Klein, Biden campaign top coronovirus advisor: "coronavirus won't be a "serious pandemic."

Feb. 13 - Ron Klein, Biden campaign top coronovirus advisor: "We don’t have a #COVIDー19 epidemic in the US but we are starting to see a fear epidemic. Kudos to @NYCMayor (and others) for standing against that."

Oddly enough while those people with the exception of Fauci in January, were saying things, Covita was keeping it on the down low..........

Nah, no one was downplaying it in the winter. Nope! Only Trump somehow got it wrong. All the democrats knew exactly what was coming. Right, Pete?

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/fro...vent-aged-well

Keep dreaming in that little Fox echo chamber, remember, it's a hoax and November 4th it will be gone like a miracle.
More and more comes out about the administration's efforts to keep the virus under wraps and failure to act.