22 dead kids

[Diamond Tackle]

Originally Posted by mosholu

Bassturbed please come out of the bunker and smell reality.
Concealed weapons were the cause of the loss of 32 innocent lives.

oh boy, here we go. We are going to be lectured now from across the big pond.
I hear the crime rate has really gone down since they banned most of your guns over there..
im not getting sucked into this debate ,but please stick to politics in your own country.do not lecture us, esp not at this tragic time.
want to talk fishing?, we are all ears.

[fishsmith]

The whole thing sucks, lunatics are everywhere.

Tonight at bedtime I went over the lock down procedures at the elementary school with my 6 and 8yr old kids.

Sad day, very, very sad day.

[stripersnipr]

Originally Posted by mosholu

Bassturbed please come out of the bunker and smell reality.
Concealed weapons were the cause of the loss of 32 innocent lives.

Wow, I thought it was a criminal acting out on unmarmed school kids that was the cause of this. Who knew a gun in your waistband could do this all by itself.

[mosholu]

Originally Posted by Tinman

oh boy, here we go. We are going to be lectured now from across the big pond.
I hear the crime rate has really gone down since they banned most of your guns over there..
im not getting sucked into this debate ,but please stick to politics in your own country.do not lecture us, esp not at this tragic time.
want to talk fishing?, we are all ears.

I am a US citizen and currently working in the UK. You should be able to have a discussion with anyone about issues. I was not making any political statement pro or con re: gun control. You want to arm the cops on campus fine. Having an armed student body is probably not the way to go.

[Swimmer]

Supposedly a Korean national in the country about since he was 8 years old did this. Awful, simply awful.

[Diamond Tackle]

Originally Posted by Swimmer

Supposedly a Chinese national in the country about 18 months did this. Awful, simply awful.

Doesn't sound like a US citizen then , does it.
I guess we are a little too easy with the student visas.


Mosholu, where do you hail from in the states? Not near mosholu parkway in the Bronx by any chance is it ? cause Im very familiar with that area.

[spence]

Originally Posted by Tinman

I guess we are a little too easy with the student visas.

Actually it's the other way around. Tighter post 9/11 restrictions are keeping a lot of talent overseas.

It's pretty revolting to see this tragic incident used for emotional political statements before the blood is even dry. Sure, guns don't kill people, but there's a time and a place for that debate.

-spence

[Diamond Tackle]

Originally Posted by spence

Actually it's the other way around. Tighter post 9/11 restrictions are keeping a lot of talent overseas.
-spence

"Talent", Perhaps, "Crazy" obviously NOT. Maybe we need to screen people differently and not worry about offending non citizens by profiling. I just wonder if there is a history of mental illness here with this kid. I wonder.
The facts will speak for themselves.
and btw, how and when we DISCUSS this is also part of another one of our rights, remember the 1st amendment? No political gain, just a real tragedy, and I think there are ways to prevent this from happening again, at least to this degree.

[spence]

I'd wager no amount of profiling or VISA restrictions would have stopped this...unless the nutcase had a crimininal record.

-spence

[bart]

yeah a bunch of drunk college kids carrying around concealed weapons is a good idea. get real

what a horrible, horrible tragedy...

[striperondafly]

Originally Posted by bart

yeah a bunch of drunk college kids carrying around concealed weapons is a good idea. get real

what a horrible, horrible tragedy...

I was waiting for someone to say that. I'm pro gun - but that is ridiculos

[Slipknot]

Originally Posted by bart

yeah a bunch of drunk college kids carrying around concealed weapons is a good idea. get real

what a horrible, horrible tragedy...

I was thinking of if even just one proffessor had the right to carry, maybe it would not have escalated.

the whole thing is sad

the more screwed up this world gets, the more these things will happen unfortunately.

[JohnR]

One or two professors on campus wouldn't make much difference and a student gun-free dorm makes a little sense (guns & alcohol?? - bad mix). BUT campus security should be armed and perhaps a better response system in place. Horse is out of the barn unfortunately...

[fishpoopoo]

what is the minimum military enlistment age in the U.S. and the U.K.?

Oh, you mean we can't TRUST 17/18 year-olds to handle weapons of mass destruction and defend our country?

I understand the discomfort factor involved with armed college students. But then we should raise the minimum age for cops and soldiers to 21, right?

btw, the minimum age for a valid resident or non-resident concealed handgun permit to be issued in VA is 21.

there is no info out yet...but my gut tells me that the shooter did not have a concealed carry permit. anyways, he was wearing a tactical vest, so it was obvious (at least to the trained eye) that he was armed.

the shooter killed 2 people in a dorm ... and then two hours later popped into a classroom and killed 30 more like fish in a barrel.

again, if there was just ONE person in that classroom who could have fired back (a professor, a maintenance man, if not another 21 year old licensed student), there might have been a different ending here.

[Raven]

of this Tradgedy

but after just reading that.... ben

i'm dying to see the movie now...
where everyone is talking in class
and in busts this shooter a-hole
threatening to shoot everybody
and about six students pull their pistols
and blow that piece of $hit away....
Blam blam blam blam blam blam DONE!

[fishpoopoo]

ATF just grilled the dealer for 3 hours.

Guy shot up the school with a Glock 19 and a Walter P-22, purchased 35 days ago. The s/n was allegedly ground off the Glock, but he had the receipt for the gun in his pocket.

shooter's last name is reportedly Cho. That pegs him as a Korean. Bastard.

[likwid]

I hear that its cool to talk gun control and fight in threads about something that is a tragedy and really has no need to be fought over.

These kids were lined up and shot execution style.
Go to SOL if you want to fight over gun control.

[fishsmith]

There is a huge difference between 17 - 18 civilians and 17 -18 yr old trained soldiers.

My view is security guards need guns to be effective.

[likwid]

Originally Posted by Bassturbed

shooter's last name is reportedly Cho. That pegs him as a Korean. Bastard.

And Charles Whitman was an honorably discharged United States Marine. Born and bred white boy. You have a point or just running your mouth?

[JohnR]

Ben - Apples & Oranges - this is an issue of responsible weapons training. If the 17/18 year old kids have the proper training - like army grunts that have gone through basic - then their AIT - then unit training, all under the leadership of older corporals and sargeants. Even an adult would have been hard pressed to go up against this well armed psycho.



Liquid - while I agree that this thread should not be about gun control why would you direct him somewhere else? Are we incapable of discussing this? You and Ben are about as far apart politically as anyone here but you don't have (too) many people suggesting you go elsewhere to soapbox your opinions...

[fishpoopoo]

Originally Posted by likwid

These kids were lined up and shot execution style.

eyewitness accounts contradict this - the guy came into the classroom and just started shooting.

[fishpoopoo]

Originally Posted by JohnR

Ben - Apples & Oranges - this is an issue of responsible weapons training. If the 17/18 year old kids have the proper training - like army grunts that have gone through basic - then their AIT - then unit training, all under the leadership of older corporals and sargeants. Even an adult would have been hard pressed to go up against this well armed psycho.

1. training or no advanced training, an armed professor or student present in the classroom has better odds of taking out this bad guy than unarmed sheeple are.

2. Virginia concealed handgun permit holders are REQUIRED to have some training before their permit is issued.

[fishpoopoo]

Originally Posted by likwid

You have a point or just running your mouth?

eek, sorry Likwid, I'm bouncing between three different forums.

Geraldo Rivera incorrectly identified the shooter as a 24-year old Chinese national, and pointed to that person's blog. That person is not the shooter and has said so on his blog (he's still alive, I guess that tells you something).

The real shooter's parents and immediate family will be overwhelmed with shame for this despicable act.

[Saltheart]

No preparartion by the security forceat the school would have put then where needed at the time needed. they could all be Rambos but if they aren't in the exact room at that moment , no chnace. the idea that everyone should be armed to defend themselves in this kind of situation has some merit. i always thought that if i was in the victims spot , I;'d want to at least try to shoot back if i had a weapon.

On the other hand , 33 dead by a nut case in a rare even is better than 500 dead , 2 per night , as people blast eachother at drunken college partys over sports , broken hearts , last weeks cardgame , etc.

I honestly don't think there is anything that can be done to guard against the lone rabid gunman. He gets to pick his target. If he's at all lucid , he's going to avoid any security etc when he chooses where he will go balistic.

[fishpoopoo]

yup it was a 23 year-old South Korean national.

confirmed 9mm and .22. likely only used the 9mm.

[The Dad Fisherman]

Remember, a lot of these "Law-Abiding" Citizens that you want to arm are also the Same ones that are doing Keg-Stands and Jello-Shots on an almost nighty basis.

Tell me that ain't a recipe for disaster in itself

[fishpoopoo]

true, but what about professors, teaching assistance and other employees?

also, it is unlawful for concealed handgun permittees to be under the influence of alcohol/drugs and be armed. most people who value their permits understand this.

the same goes with cars. you don't booze and drive cars at the same time. most responsible people who value their driving privileges understand this.

and by the way, i slept with a loaded .357 mag under my bed in school. no problems whatsoever.

[The Dad Fisherman]

I agree with you there....No problem with the Professors and responsible adults having them....its just the kids that make me nervous.

I don't think to many students major in Common Sense 101 these days....although they should

[chris L]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

Remember, a lot of these "Law-Abiding" Citizens that you want to arm are also the Same ones that are doing Keg-Stands and Jello-Shots on an almost nighty basis.

Tell me that ain't a recipe for disaster in itself

but remember
the guys in the military do too .
I dont agree with arming the students , arm the employees ! let them carry to work . who is in the halls ,the basement , all over the campus and most have an idea whats right and wrong . da employees . they even know how to get into buildings with chained doors . service tunnels

[BW from AZ]

I have very strong feeling about all of this. I agree with some and disagree with others. Guns dont belong in the hands of anyone without proper training and respect.
There is a lot that can be learned from all this. Dont waste it.
The highest price has already been paid by 31 inocent lives. Now make decisions with this very expensive knowledge so it isnt likely to happen again. He (the gunman) couldnt be stopped prior to this, but it should not have taken so long to end it.

(this is the tamed down version)