Since service is being discussed I believe there's a pilot service center being set up for Van Staal. It'll be at River's End, I believe. Cheaper shipping back and forth or local for some. Not sure it's finalized but as far as I know it's supposed to happen.
Assuming there's no nightmares associated with the test run, it's likely you'll see more service centers at shops that are interested.
When we have software issues at work we are told to call our service people over in India for support. Now a days when I get tech support I always ask them WHERE they are physically located just for my own curiosity.
MD is this you??? Some language for adults so kids beware.
hope thats true pete,,, if or when they start to be manufactured in china, who will say no to purchacing a VS,,, i am giong to buy three more, then the colection will be complete
Lots being said and I did leave room for doubt for my post only being hearsay but with all the commotion I figured I`d try again. I don`t own a VS.
The overall quality of the made in Asia Vs` will boil down to the components. If they try to use inferior metals here and there it will show if it has`nt already and that is that.
LMFAO, Lurch. That was a good one! Thanks for the chuckle dude.....lol.
Oh, I'm getting some great laughs from this thread.
Other service centers for VS? At least that one would be on the east coast - a little closer than Tulsa! Doesn't mean the turn around could be any better depending on the time of the yr.
I'm in awe that VS doesn't sell a self-service kit any more. They USE to sell one along with the hex service wrenches for the hex side plates. No one bothered to put together a self-service O-ring kit. There are some little tricks with the o-rings, but again it isn't rocket science. They probably don't want to deal with getting sued over it. <g>
A NEW COLLECTOR'S DREAM! US made VS reels. Oh boy this is going to be good.
I always kick myself in the ass for not seeing posibilities coming.
Dang I could have bought a couple and made triple my money back after a couple years.
I gotta pay more attention to who is setting up who for a windfall investment.
VanStal, China, cheaply made parts hmmm......anybets on how long they have to go before going all the way to the "remember them" file?
Then again I still get the laugh of the year out of this! It is too funny, just too funny.
look at how guitars evolved. Now you have fenders made in Japan, Mexico and pay a premium for ones made in the US. How long before VS outsources their customer service too? You'll be explaining to some guy in India on why your drag is not working.
I love my VS, but this really, really lame.
look at how guitars evolved. Now you have fenders made in Japan, Mexico and pay a premium for ones made in the US. How long before VS outsources their customer service too? You'll be explaining to some guy in India on why your drag is not working.
I love my VS, but this really, really lame.
Actually my Mexican made Telecaster plays better than the American made one. Just had to round off the fret edges and bingo she really burns.
I work in the water treatment industry (water treating chemicals and services for power plants, central heating plants, chilled water plants, wastewater treatment plants, etc.) where product quality must always be 100%, similar to pharmaceuticals. We cannot afford to ship off spec chemical treatments.
My company does not purchase Chinese-origin raw materials because we cannot be sure the quality will be consistent. (Our Chief Chemist of 38 years is Chinese and says "forget it" when we discuss purchasing raw materials from Communist China.) The price of Chinese chemicals is sometimes one half that of our domestic suppliers and the quality is very good....that is, until the 12th order. YIKES!!! That's when you'll experience the real China.
I'm sure good quality Van Staal reels can be manufactured in Communist China but you can count on also getting some real lemons, too. I can't afford to drive 100 miles (one way) to outer Cape Cod to fish the beaches at night and discover that my Chinese made spinning reel does not work.
I own Model 100, 150, and 200 Van Staals with low serial numbers, bought years ago. They have been great (not fished hard because I fish (troll) from a boat all summer long) but I wouldn't buy a VS reel if it was made in China. I cannot afford to take that risk. I'm a fisherman , not a gambler.
Since service is being discussed I believe there's a pilot service center being set up for Van Staal. It'll be at River's End, I believe. Cheaper shipping back and forth or local for some. Not sure it's finalized but as far as I know it's supposed to happen.
Assuming there's no nightmares associated with the test run, it's likely you'll see more service centers at shops that are interested.
If I recall, Reel Ventures had planned to do this also. Hope it works out this go round.
Like Nebe said:
"Why are all of you so surprised?
van stall is now owned by friggen ZEBCO... Of course this was going to happen."
And Bart:
"what a bunch of bullshat. how is the price not going to drop? they obviously moved the operations over there so that the cost of manufacturing would be less.
F VS. i'll be fishing my 704s until they explode.....which isn't going to happen anytime soon..."
I agree with these guys, another once good product is going by the wayside. I remember when they first came out 20(?)yrs ago-serious reels. I knew Zebco was the end.
I bought 6 parts reels for my U.S. Penns so I've got enough parts till I can buy a lathe and milling machine-......and I'll make my own damn reel.
Van Staal "Made In China", what did any of you expect to happen?
Personally, I would prefer "Made In The USA", but that's life.
It is a little late to sound the warning bell or to complain. As insideous as the loss of American manufacturing may sound, realize that we did it to ourselves. We demanded the higher wages and benefits, without realizing how good we had it here in the USA compared to the majority of the rest of the world.
We all want better gear so we can fish more in our "free time".
The Chinese don't need to worry about "free time" like we do, the vast majority of them don't have any. Even if they did, they don't have much freedom of choice as to how they might spend it. For the most part they are just happy to have a roof over their heads and something to eat. Like the Boss said, "hunger is a powerful tool". The demand for cheap labor is the #1 reason we can't even bring ourselves to secure the borders, even if that means we give the bad guys easy access to our wide open back door.
All in all, it is simply a question of affordability.
We all vote with our dollars every time we shop. How we spend them determines how the "market" responds. Don't complain about Walmart, etc., they don't build those super stores stuffed with all that cheap crap and manage to keep all the lights on without an abundance of shoppers voting with their dollars.
Listen to what is being said here by many posters: "I hope they lower the VS price". Who doesn't? The "dream" is that with lower price, we can buy more, maybe get that reel we've been itching for but couldn't swing the extra cash to pick up. Will they lower the price? I doubt it. VS reels already carry a sticker price twice what they did a couple of years ago.
What made America great? Our ability to out-manufacture our rivals. This has won all the previous wars, on the world economic front as well as the battlefield. Sad to say, we are losing this war.
How many of you have a workshop? Ever turn a lure? Look in your toolbox my friend. Got any cordless tools? Great, aren't they, but they weren't made in the USA. I doubt very many of you own so much as a hammer "made in the USA" anymore, unless you have an antique. All made in China now. And what about the machine and/or power tools? Not many Bridgeports or Hardinge machines in your basement shop are there? Its all JET, and Grizzly, heck even the Delta stuff has been made in China for a decade.
Am I any better? Nope. I'm going to buy another Van Staal soon, and will keep doing the same until someone can point me in the direction of a "better" alternative, and if it turns out to be cheaper, so much the better. But would I give "made in the USA" any preference? You betcha! That difference was why I bought the VS instead of a Stella or a Saltiga in the first place. Sadly, we just don't have any choice any more.
I emailed them asking if the reel was manufactured in the USA or not and if not, what serial number represents the switch.
For whatever it is worth, here is their response;
All reels are being manufactured in the US today. However, we utilize many of the manufacturing facilities around the world to improve product quality and our technological advantage.
I can not give you serial numbers because the change has not been made.
they moved to china so the price don't go up...they had to...there only saveing us cash really...I'm a believer, amen brotherfiggers the year I finally decide to get one, they move and now the old used one will go up in price...murphy's law
Why? If VS is getting better margins, then that means the reel will be around for that much longer. If quality (for a VS) remains consistent, then why should we care?
17,000 VS reels in circulation IIRC (correct me if I'm wrong).
WTF cares - parts made overseas ain't gonna make a dent in our balance of trade or employment situation. Drop in the bucket.
People ain't gonna stop buying or using VS reels just because they are made in China. This prejudice is irrational.
Togue - good post - pretty much sums it up other than our failing of parenting and education in addition to the lack of manufacturing capability... The Van Staal, at the forefront of American stability and National Pride - Who Knew?
Weewee, the prejudice is not irrational. Our country's lack of desire to deal with, compete, and force a level playing field is irrational.
Weewee, the prejudice is not irrational. Our country's lack of desire to deal with, compete, and force a level playing field is irrational.
uh, we can't force a third-world country with a much lower cost of living (versus the US) to be a "level playing field."
the only thing that China has "fixed" is its currency. Even if the currency is allowed to double vs. the U.S. dollar, we'd still have a huge trade deficit with China.
China is coming along in many respects ... it's the old Red Guard that's holding it back with silly insular regulation. When they die off, changes will accelerate.
China is not going to be like this forever. At some point, the growing Chinese middle class, who have a savings rate of 35% (vs. negative for us) are going to be spending money on American things. Maybe Van Staal reels.
Why? If VS is getting better margins, then that means the reel will be around for that much longer. If quality (for a VS) remains consistent, then why should we care?
17,000 VS reels in circulation IIRC (correct me if I'm wrong).
WTF cares - parts made overseas ain't gonna make a dent in our balance of trade or employment situation. Drop in the bucket.
People ain't gonna stop buying or using VS reels just because they are made in China. This prejudice is irrational.
Just a feel good thing mostly.
But I agree, misplaced. Personally I don't care that much, but there's no question many care VERY much about the move.
this thread comes down to two groups.one group being people who have an "IN" with VS supporting this s hit move, and the other, previous and current owners feeling deceived by the company that is now making their supposed american made 700 dollar reel over in china at a cheaper price.
i think VS should come out from hiding and explain themselves instead of tackle shops always defending them. a lot of people bought VS because of the whole notion of them being American made. I think a lot of people feel cheated by this move..
Van Staal "Made In China", what did any of you expect to happen?
Personally, I would prefer "Made In The USA", but that's life.
It is a little late to sound the warning bell or to complain. As insideous as the loss of American manufacturing may sound, realize that we did it to ourselves. We demanded the higher wages and benefits, without realizing how good we had it here in the USA compared to the majority of the rest of the world.
We all want better gear so we can fish more in our "free time".
The Chinese don't need to worry about "free time" like we do, the vast majority of them don't have any. Even if they did, they don't have much freedom of choice as to how they might spend it. For the most part they are just happy to have a roof over their heads and something to eat. Like the Boss said, "hunger is a powerful tool". The demand for cheap labor is the #1 reason we can't even bring ourselves to secure the borders, even if that means we give the bad guys easy access to our wide open back door.
All in all, it is simply a question of affordability.
We all vote with our dollars every time we shop. How we spend them determines how the "market" responds. Don't complain about Walmart, etc., they don't build those super stores stuffed with all that cheap crap and manage to keep all the lights on without an abundance of shoppers voting with their dollars.
Listen to what is being said here by many posters: "I hope they lower the VS price". Who doesn't? The "dream" is that with lower price, we can buy more, maybe get that reel we've been itching for but couldn't swing the extra cash to pick up. Will they lower the price? I doubt it. VS reels already carry a sticker price twice what they did a couple of years ago.
What made America great? Our ability to out-manufacture our rivals. This has won all the previous wars, on the world economic front as well as the battlefield. Sad to say, we are losing this war.
How many of you have a workshop? Ever turn a lure? Look in your toolbox my friend. Got any cordless tools? Great, aren't they, but they weren't made in the USA. I doubt very many of you own so much as a hammer "made in the USA" anymore, unless you have an antique. All made in China now. And what about the machine and/or power tools? Not many Bridgeports or Hardinge machines in your basement shop are there? Its all JET, and Grizzly, heck even the Delta stuff has been made in China for a decade.
Am I any better? Nope. I'm going to buy another Van Staal soon, and will keep doing the same until someone can point me in the direction of a "better" alternative, and if it turns out to be cheaper, so much the better. But would I give "made in the USA" any preference? You betcha! That difference was why I bought the VS instead of a Stella or a Saltiga in the first place. Sadly, we just don't have any choice any more.
Spot on Togue. The people who complain about everything being built overseas should be the first to stop shopping at Walmart.
If parts start busting look at where it breaks and you can tell if it was cast or solid stock. Lots of places machine sand cast parts - bodies of the reels & spools for example. If it was machined you can look at the inside of it or the bottom of it and see where it was cast. No hiding machine marks or cast marks.
Huge cost difference between cast parts & cnc parts!!! Companies look for ways to save money so watch out.
uh, we can't force a third-world country with a much lower cost of living (versus the US) to be a "level playing field."
We sure can if we decide not to trade with them or place restrictions on trade...yea, water under the bridge...but.
When you're trading with a country that has zero IP protection, little environmental or worker protection laws etc... that's not a level playing field.
Granted, some of this we've done to our selves by regulating many types of manufacturing out of the USA.
When you're trading with a country that has zero IP protection...
Agree, but how does this affect Van Staal? China has come so far in twenty years ... their mindset and legal system won't change overnight. Remember - there was no such thing as IP under Mao, because property belonged to the State. Capital won't stay put if IP laws aren't put into place. This is changing, thanks in part to Chinese folks who have worked in the U.S. and gone back home to help reform regulation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by spence
little environmental or worker protection laws
China is undergoing its own version of the Industrial Revolution ... a bit late. They are wallowing in their own pollution and are paying the price, just as England and the United States have before. Remember Love Canal? Our own EPA didn't exist until December 1970. They will come to realize that they are poisoning themselves. It is interesting to note that the Chinese government will be spending something close to $400 BILLION big ones to get some of the country cleaned up prior to the 2008 Olympics. Ironically, many U.S. companies stand to benefit from this cleanup activity, which is just getting started. There isn't a day that goes by when some western talking head is complaining about the oppressive smog in Shanghai. The folks in Beijing hear that loud and clear.
worker protection? again, all this comes with time! nothing stays static ... chalk these up to growing pains!
now, i'm not defending China. but, understand, a hundredfold growth of industrical activity within two decades ... that takes its toll on the Chinese too!
you can't pin all of this on Van Staal.
!
Last edited by fishpoopoo; 12-31-2007 at 11:11 AM..
But there's a big difference between the industrial revolution or even the big manufactuing rise in the middle part of this centrury. That being a more global economy is putting even more pressure on China (and other developing nations for that matter) and that global businesses (including a lot of US businesses) are directly involved with Chinese (or other) operations.
There's a good reason why US companies get called to the mat when news of rampant workforce or environmental problems exist in operations overseen by US companies. It's as if they're getting away with something by hiding the behavior overseas.
this thread comes down to two groups.one group being people who have an "IN" with VS supporting this s hit move, and the other, previous and current owners feeling deceived by the company that is now making their supposed american made 700 dollar reel over in china at a cheaper price.
i think VS should come out from hiding and explain themselves instead of tackle shops always defending them. a lot of people bought VS because of the whole notion of them being American made. I think a lot of people feel cheated by this move..
I doubt you’ll hear anything Bart, at least online, and I’ll tell you why I think that (and this is only my opinion).
Increasingly, “good” press on forums is no press. And once you are getting press (good or bad) on the forums the best case scenario is that it falls off the main page and is forgotten. If you get praise you want to take it and run for the hills before it all goes horribly wrong. Tackle Direct getting murdered on SOL a little ways back is a perfect example. Not only did good press spiral into a hate fest it was also a perfect example of where someone from Tackle Direct probably shouldn’t have even responded as it just prolonged what looked to me was a somewhat undeserved beating. I felt bad for them even as a competitor because the SWE could be one mis-shipped package or screw up away from that sort of nightmare. No one is perfect.
Now simultaneously I’m not saying there should be any sort of censorship and people shouldn’t hold back their experiences. That’s exactly what’s good about forums. I’m just pointing out how a lot people look at it.
It’s kind of like at work, unless you’re lucky enough to work in a place that constantly recognizes what you do well. Most people probably rarely hear about it when they do something right but hear about it EVERY time they screw up. No one seemed to give a damn VS is working on setting up a service center at Rivers End, for example.
Just think of what a formal VS response to all this would do. A thread like that would probably have a half-life of a thousand years barring a lock from a moderator.
Bottomline is manufacturers, plug builders, and anyone else simultaneously enjoys, but more often then not fears seeing their name mentioned in forums, even when it’s good. It’s too bad because most come to the conclusion (and they’re right most of the time) that no response is a better response. Which really defeats the whole purpose and positives of online forums.
I hindsight I probably shouldn’t be responding to this thread now…
Lots of foolish, uninformed comments here. We like what we like,regardless of where it is made. Stella, Saltiga, Abu. Where are they made? Are they cast or machined? What do you think costs more Einstein?Seems some folks have an axe to grind for whatever reason.A$700 reel better be good but there is NOTHING that does not break down with salt,sand or sun.I have seen the accurate spinners.... I have seen the saltiga loyalists upset too.Alberto broke a reel....wow.How could that happen?Swim with a reel,do nothing to maintain it,we'll see who can fish longest. Sure I wish it was still made in the USA I'm proud of my country. Is there something wrong with this?[COLOR="Red"] I also would like to see WET (white entetainment television).This does not mean I am a racist,just proud of my race.[/COLOR]Lots of stuff slipping away we can't seem to control,add this to the list. Hold your breath because I hear we will be getting some interesting news regarding the ZeeBaas. You heard it here first.
MERRY CHRISTMAS
completely off the topic, but what would we watch on WET?
hockey games and banjo music?monster trucks
back to topic- have fished shimano for years and have always been happy. been drooling over the vs for a while and my plans to buy one this winter have not changed.
Thanks for the chuckle dude.....lol. 
figgers the year I finally decide to get one, they move and now the old used one will go up in price...murphy's law
hey ya never know. 
Linear Mode
