Van Staal [SIZE="1"]made in china[/SIZE]

[fishpoopoo]

Originally Posted by JohnR

Weewee, the prejudice is not irrational. Our country's lack of desire to deal with, compete, and force a level playing field is irrational.

uh, we can't force a third-world country with a much lower cost of living (versus the US) to be a "level playing field."

the only thing that China has "fixed" is its currency. Even if the currency is allowed to double vs. the U.S. dollar, we'd still have a huge trade deficit with China.

China is coming along in many respects ... it's the old Red Guard that's holding it back with silly insular regulation. When they die off, changes will accelerate.

China is not going to be like this forever. At some point, the growing Chinese middle class, who have a savings rate of 35% (vs. negative for us) are going to be spending money on American things. Maybe Van Staal reels.

[spence]

Originally Posted by fishpoopoo

uh, we can't force a third-world country with a much lower cost of living (versus the US) to be a "level playing field."

We sure can if we decide not to trade with them or place restrictions on trade...yea, water under the bridge...but.

When you're trading with a country that has zero IP protection, little environmental or worker protection laws etc... that's not a level playing field.

Granted, some of this we've done to our selves by regulating many types of manufacturing out of the USA.

-spence

[fishpoopoo]

Originally Posted by spence

When you're trading with a country that has zero IP protection...

Agree, but how does this affect Van Staal? China has come so far in twenty years ... their mindset and legal system won't change overnight. Remember - there was no such thing as IP under Mao, because property belonged to the State. Capital won't stay put if IP laws aren't put into place. This is changing, thanks in part to Chinese folks who have worked in the U.S. and gone back home to help reform regulation.

Originally Posted by spence

little environmental or worker protection laws

China is undergoing its own version of the Industrial Revolution ... a bit late. They are wallowing in their own pollution and are paying the price, just as England and the United States have before. Remember Love Canal? Our own EPA didn't exist until December 1970. They will come to realize that they are poisoning themselves. It is interesting to note that the Chinese government will be spending something close to $400 BILLION big ones to get some of the country cleaned up prior to the 2008 Olympics. Ironically, many U.S. companies stand to benefit from this cleanup activity, which is just getting started. There isn't a day that goes by when some western talking head is complaining about the oppressive smog in Shanghai. The folks in Beijing hear that loud and clear.

worker protection? again, all this comes with time! nothing stays static ... chalk these up to growing pains!

now, i'm not defending China. but, understand, a hundredfold growth of industrical activity within two decades ... that takes its toll on the Chinese too!

you can't pin all of this on Van Staal.

!

[spence]

Originally Posted by fishpoopoo

Blah, bah, blah snipped

All true and I agree with it in reality.

But there's a big difference between the industrial revolution or even the big manufactuing rise in the middle part of this centrury. That being a more global economy is putting even more pressure on China (and other developing nations for that matter) and that global businesses (including a lot of US businesses) are directly involved with Chinese (or other) operations.

There's a good reason why US companies get called to the mat when news of rampant workforce or environmental problems exist in operations overseen by US companies. It's as if they're getting away with something by hiding the behavior overseas.

This of course, I don't blame on Zebco

-spence