Van Staal [SIZE="1"]made in china[/SIZE]

[fishpoopoo]

Originally Posted by Pete_G

Sad though, regardless.

Why? If VS is getting better margins, then that means the reel will be around for that much longer. If quality (for a VS) remains consistent, then why should we care?

17,000 VS reels in circulation IIRC (correct me if I'm wrong).

WTF cares - parts made overseas ain't gonna make a dent in our balance of trade or employment situation. Drop in the bucket.

People ain't gonna stop buying or using VS reels just because they are made in China. This prejudice is irrational.

[JohnR]

Togue - good post - pretty much sums it up other than our failing of parenting and education in addition to the lack of manufacturing capability... The Van Staal, at the forefront of American stability and National Pride - Who Knew?

Weewee, the prejudice is not irrational. Our country's lack of desire to deal with, compete, and force a level playing field is irrational.

[fishpoopoo]

Originally Posted by JohnR

Weewee, the prejudice is not irrational. Our country's lack of desire to deal with, compete, and force a level playing field is irrational.

uh, we can't force a third-world country with a much lower cost of living (versus the US) to be a "level playing field."

the only thing that China has "fixed" is its currency. Even if the currency is allowed to double vs. the U.S. dollar, we'd still have a huge trade deficit with China.

China is coming along in many respects ... it's the old Red Guard that's holding it back with silly insular regulation. When they die off, changes will accelerate.

China is not going to be like this forever. At some point, the growing Chinese middle class, who have a savings rate of 35% (vs. negative for us) are going to be spending money on American things. Maybe Van Staal reels.

[spence]

Originally Posted by fishpoopoo

uh, we can't force a third-world country with a much lower cost of living (versus the US) to be a "level playing field."

We sure can if we decide not to trade with them or place restrictions on trade...yea, water under the bridge...but.

When you're trading with a country that has zero IP protection, little environmental or worker protection laws etc... that's not a level playing field.

Granted, some of this we've done to our selves by regulating many types of manufacturing out of the USA.

-spence

[fishpoopoo]

Originally Posted by spence

When you're trading with a country that has zero IP protection...

Agree, but how does this affect Van Staal? China has come so far in twenty years ... their mindset and legal system won't change overnight. Remember - there was no such thing as IP under Mao, because property belonged to the State. Capital won't stay put if IP laws aren't put into place. This is changing, thanks in part to Chinese folks who have worked in the U.S. and gone back home to help reform regulation.

Originally Posted by spence

little environmental or worker protection laws

China is undergoing its own version of the Industrial Revolution ... a bit late. They are wallowing in their own pollution and are paying the price, just as England and the United States have before. Remember Love Canal? Our own EPA didn't exist until December 1970. They will come to realize that they are poisoning themselves. It is interesting to note that the Chinese government will be spending something close to $400 BILLION big ones to get some of the country cleaned up prior to the 2008 Olympics. Ironically, many U.S. companies stand to benefit from this cleanup activity, which is just getting started. There isn't a day that goes by when some western talking head is complaining about the oppressive smog in Shanghai. The folks in Beijing hear that loud and clear.

worker protection? again, all this comes with time! nothing stays static ... chalk these up to growing pains!

now, i'm not defending China. but, understand, a hundredfold growth of industrical activity within two decades ... that takes its toll on the Chinese too!

you can't pin all of this on Van Staal.

!

[spence]

Originally Posted by fishpoopoo

Blah, bah, blah snipped

All true and I agree with it in reality.

But there's a big difference between the industrial revolution or even the big manufactuing rise in the middle part of this centrury. That being a more global economy is putting even more pressure on China (and other developing nations for that matter) and that global businesses (including a lot of US businesses) are directly involved with Chinese (or other) operations.

There's a good reason why US companies get called to the mat when news of rampant workforce or environmental problems exist in operations overseen by US companies. It's as if they're getting away with something by hiding the behavior overseas.

This of course, I don't blame on Zebco

-spence

[Pete_G]

Originally Posted by fishpoopoo

Why? If VS is getting better margins, then that means the reel will be around for that much longer. If quality (for a VS) remains consistent, then why should we care?

17,000 VS reels in circulation IIRC (correct me if I'm wrong).

WTF cares - parts made overseas ain't gonna make a dent in our balance of trade or employment situation. Drop in the bucket.

People ain't gonna stop buying or using VS reels just because they are made in China. This prejudice is irrational.

Just a feel good thing mostly.

But I agree, misplaced. Personally I don't care that much, but there's no question many care VERY much about the move.

[fishpoopoo]

...and...unless y'all are chewing on your VS' 24/7, it's unlikely you'll get sick from a Chinese-made VS.

unless, of course, the metal is radioactive. hey ya never know.

[bart]

this thread comes down to two groups.one group being people who have an "IN" with VS supporting this s hit move, and the other, previous and current owners feeling deceived by the company that is now making their supposed american made 700 dollar reel over in china at a cheaper price.

i think VS should come out from hiding and explain themselves instead of tackle shops always defending them. a lot of people bought VS because of the whole notion of them being American made. I think a lot of people feel cheated by this move..

[Pete_G]

Originally Posted by bart

this thread comes down to two groups.one group being people who have an "IN" with VS supporting this s hit move, and the other, previous and current owners feeling deceived by the company that is now making their supposed american made 700 dollar reel over in china at a cheaper price.

i think VS should come out from hiding and explain themselves instead of tackle shops always defending them. a lot of people bought VS because of the whole notion of them being American made. I think a lot of people feel cheated by this move..

I doubt you’ll hear anything Bart, at least online, and I’ll tell you why I think that (and this is only my opinion).

Increasingly, “good” press on forums is no press. And once you are getting press (good or bad) on the forums the best case scenario is that it falls off the main page and is forgotten. If you get praise you want to take it and run for the hills before it all goes horribly wrong. Tackle Direct getting murdered on SOL a little ways back is a perfect example. Not only did good press spiral into a hate fest it was also a perfect example of where someone from Tackle Direct probably shouldn’t have even responded as it just prolonged what looked to me was a somewhat undeserved beating. I felt bad for them even as a competitor because the SWE could be one mis-shipped package or screw up away from that sort of nightmare. No one is perfect.

Now simultaneously I’m not saying there should be any sort of censorship and people shouldn’t hold back their experiences. That’s exactly what’s good about forums. I’m just pointing out how a lot people look at it.

It’s kind of like at work, unless you’re lucky enough to work in a place that constantly recognizes what you do well. Most people probably rarely hear about it when they do something right but hear about it EVERY time they screw up. No one seemed to give a damn VS is working on setting up a service center at Rivers End, for example.

Just think of what a formal VS response to all this would do. A thread like that would probably have a half-life of a thousand years barring a lock from a moderator.

Bottomline is manufacturers, plug builders, and anyone else simultaneously enjoys, but more often then not fears seeing their name mentioned in forums, even when it’s good. It’s too bad because most come to the conclusion (and they’re right most of the time) that no response is a better response. Which really defeats the whole purpose and positives of online forums.

I hindsight I probably shouldn’t be responding to this thread now…

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by Pete_G

Bottomline is manufacturers, plug builders, and anyone else simultaneously enjoys, but more often then not fears seeing their name mentioned in forums, even when it’s good. It’s too bad because most come to the conclusion (and they’re right most of the time) that no response is a better response. Which really defeats the whole purpose and positives of online forums.

I hindsight I probably shouldn’t be responding to this thread now…

Ducks falls from the ceiling. It is unfortunate but this is often true. How does one fix / prevent / get around this? Not sue but I "THINK" the answer has been successfully applied by certain companies "INVOLVED" in the community. I say think as my experience in this regard is pretty limited to here on S-B. Just a couple examples of places that can weather a negative blurb rather swimmingly are SWE and M&Ds. Cases where something's wrong are extremely rare and usually zero fault of the shop but a fully supportive and RATIONAL response from levelheaded members of the community (and level headed responses from the shops themselves) puts a positive light on doing business with that place. A legitimate turning of a negative into a positive...