Interesting speaker at RISAA tonight

[l.i.fish.in.vt]

if the bass stocks are in trouble as some say,i am curouis how reducing the numbers caught will increase the numbers of future bass. i do not buy that the more fish thererare the greater the chances of more bass.if conditions are right it doesn't take a huge number of breeders to create a new class of fish.i am no scientist, but have spent a good part of my 54 years working and playing on the water.basically overfishing takes place when a species no longer can reproduce to replenish what is being taken.you want more fish figure out why they aren't reproducing.

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by l.i.fish.in.vt

if the bass stocks are in trouble as some say,i am curouis how reducing the numbers caught will increase the numbers of future bass. i do not buy that the more fish thererare the greater the chances of more bass.if conditions are right it doesn't take a huge number of breeders to create a new class of fish.i am no scientist, but have spent a good part of my 54 years working and playing on the water.basically overfishing takes place when a species no longer can reproduce to replenish what is being taken.you want more fish figure out why they aren't reproducing.

Really? You don't see how if less fish are killed, then there will be more fish in the sea?

[piemma]

Originally Posted by l.i.fish.in.vt

if the bass stocks are in trouble as some say,i am curouis how reducing the numbers caught will increase the numbers of future bass. i do not buy that the more fish thererare the greater the chances of more bass.if conditions are right it doesn't take a huge number of breeders to create a new class of fish.i am no scientist, but have spent a good part of my 54 years working and playing on the water.basically overfishing takes place when a species no longer can reproduce to replenish what is being taken.you want more fish figure out why they aren't reproducing.

Without being a wiseass I must state that I find your argument to be without foundation.

Of course if you have fewer fish then you have fewer fish breeding so you have fewer new fish. Simple equation

[numbskull]

Actually, there is some truth to what he says. It does not take very many fish to have a successful YOY class if conditions are right, and I believe that genetic studies have shown that big YOY classes may be the result of several hundred fish spawning successfully in one small area. Presumably this is what "saved" the fishery back in the early 90's. On the other hand those few hundred fish are typically from the same school and are prone to being wiped out quite easily by intense focused fishing effort.....which is the norm these days when the remaining fish are located. The fewer schools, the less the chance one group hits it big.

His argument also overlooks the toll natural mortality takes on fish. There where loads of small fish everywhere 3 years ago. Coincident with the mycobacteriosis epidemic they seem to have disappeared. If natural mortality goes way up, fishing mortality has to go way down or the number of fish plummets quickly.

[l.i.fish.in.vt]

Paul,i guess i don't have a foundation for my argument,but as George mentioned the bass did rebound when the numbers were at all time lows.in my many years of digging clams i have seen areas that were barren of clams,a few chowders here and there ,turn in to some of the most productive areas. look at narraganset bay in the early 80's. the indian river in Florida 83.it didn't take many clams to turn an empty bottom into a bonanza.i also saw how an entire set of clams die when the army corp opened the flood gates on the river.of course the clammers were blamed for raping the river.i guess being an uneducated ,greedy drunken commercial i can't see what is in front of me. i have only been surf fishing 13 years ,i am seeing and catching more fish than ever before. i fish both LI and Cape cod.many of the guys i know who are not internet heroes are also having banner years from delaware to the mass border. sure some of the traditional areas are not producing for some , but a lot of other out of the way areas and not well know are producing.working in a tackle shop i get tired of people complaining how bad fishing is,when if they walked a little they would be on fish big time.just because they aren't were you caught them in the past doesn't mean they are gone.

[piemma]

Originally Posted by l.i.fish.in.vt

Paul,i guess i don't have a foundation for my argument,but as George mentioned the bass did rebound when the numbers were at all time lows.in my many years of digging clams i have seen areas that were barren of clams,a few chowders here and there ,turn in to some of the most productive areas. look at narraganset bay in the early 80's. the indian river in Florida 83.it didn't take many clams to turn an empty bottom into a bonanza.i also saw how an entire set of clams die when the army corp opened the flood gates on the river.of course the clammers were blamed for raping the river.i guess being an uneducated ,greedy drunken commercial i can't see what is in front of me. i have only been surf fishing 13 years ,i am seeing and catching more fish than ever before. i fish both LI and Cape cod.many of the guys i know who are not internet heroes are also having banner years from delaware to the mass border. sure some of the traditional areas are not producing for some , but a lot of other out of the way areas and not well know are producing.working in a tackle shop i get tired of people complaining how bad fishing is,when if they walked a little they would be on fish big time.just because they aren't were you caught them in the past doesn't mean they are gone.

I, in no way, meant to minimize your statement or contribution to this thread.

In my opinion (and I should have stated that beforehand) I think that an increase in size and a decrease in bag limit will help the Bass population. But that's just my opinion.
Now I tend to agree with you about having a good year last year. I, too, had a great year in the boat and in the Canal in the Fall. However, if you talk to Joe P, John Lee (Goosefish), RIRockhound and Eben, you will hear a dramatically different story. Even Steve Mc Kenna, a true high hook, will tell you that last year was one of their worst years for fish in general, both quality and quantity.

So who know what the answer is. One thing is certain: "Time will tell".

[Crafty Angler]

Originally Posted by numbskull

Actually, there is some truth to what he says. It does not take very many fish to have a successful YOY class if conditions are right, and I believe that genetic studies have shown that big YOY classes may be the result of several hundred fish spawning successfully in one small area. Presumably this is what "saved" the fishery back in the early 90's. On the other hand those few hundred fish are typically from the same school and are prone to being wiped out quite easily by intense focused fishing effort.....which is the norm these days when the remaining fish are located. The fewer schools, the less the chance one group hits it big...

After rereading your post I'm beginning to wonder, Numby...

To carry it one step further, if the gene pool has become smaller (less diverse) due to the number of fish in a school that hits it big, is the resulting YOY class more prone to disease and abnormalities?

In other words, is the result weakened immune systems made worse by a lack of forage or a genetic predisposition toward certain diseases like microbacteriosis?

I'll be the first to admit that I may be stepping into water over my head and deep enough to make my hat float on issues involving dominant/recessive genes, but I do know a good bit about dog breeding and the inadvisability of dating one's sister or cousins

Or maybe it's still just a case of 'all of the above' in regards to breeding, forage, fishing pressure on the stock and the state of the marine environment in which they live

I think I'll have to brew another cup of starter fluid to see if this becomes any clearer...

[MAKAI]

I am giving myself a popsicle headache going through a bunch of Menhaden research papers.
So many variables, the data is all over the place, some common, some not.

You can find whatever you are looking for.

I am blinded by science.

[l.i.fish.in.vt]

a qoute from a freinds brother''Years ago there were plenty of fish and and no fish scientist,now there are plenty of fish scientist and no fish.''

[OLD GOAT]

JUST MY 2CENTS
As i understand it bass spawning requires the proper PH in the brackish waters of a river. If the water moves to fast the eggs move into saline to soon and die.
The Hudson river with its limestone cliffs has helped the stripers in this system in spite of the chemicals
I also feel the menhaden and herring problem need to be addressed and now that licence money is involved,we as club members will have more clout than commercial interests,be they menhaden or sea herring netters and i hope we can turn things around for the betterment of stripers