Increase in commercial quota for next year

[piemma]

I am just amazed at the level of stupidity being displayed by ASMFC



"on November 9th the Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission will vote on on the proposal to expand the coastal commercial quota for striped bass. Stripers Forever is strongly opposed to this idea on all grounds. Here are the states that voted in favor of this commercial expansion in past meetings:


North Carolina, Virginia, Maryland, Delaware, New York, Rhode Island, Connecticut


The vote in favor was 10 to 6, so we need to change two votes in order for the increase to be denied - other districts and organizations have votes also. We think that several votes will change because of the terrible season that has gone by, the public comments against the idea, and the recent poor young-of-the-year survey from Chesapeake Bay, but it is very important that we take nothing for granted. Money is a powerful tool, and many of the commercial interests will be doing their best to get a bigger slice of the declining striped bass pie."

[goosefish]

Can the striped bass sustain the pressure? Incredible how many of these fish are already harvested by all sides, commercial, rec., party and charter. I'm dumbfounded at the amount of meat that gets taken on the southwest Ledge on Block Island. We're going to be sorry if we keep the pressure up. We need to be smart--I don't know if a group of managers and scientists can be smart. In a funny way they are too smart and therefore trip on their toes. These groups have gotten too big--they behave like the tower of babel, all the jargon and data--whatever happened to eyes.

And yet the whole commercial side--because of the very tight quotas on other species like scup and haddock and yellowtail flounder; plus the whole coming of fleet consolidation and allocation grabbing--where the benefit goes to those with the deepest pockets---the small boat commercial fisherman in many Atlantic States, feels that it is his/her American Right to harvest striped bass at a higher level. It's a mess Paul. A total mess. People need to be smart about this. I like one fish per day. But I don't own a charter boat and I don't sell them. And I don't think that striped bass has caused the collapse of the southern New England lobster fishery. . .

[BigFish]

That is a mistake. Commercial fishing is decimating the stocks and I am sorry if it pisses people off but I believe this is reason number 1 why the fall run the last few seasons has sucked and there is a noticeable lack of small fish. All the breeders are being taken. That is my belief and like it or not kiddies I am sticking to it.

Reason number 2 is the 2 fish a day take........we need to roll that back to 1 fish at 36 inches! Nobody needs 2 fish a day.

[Nebe]

Originally Posted by BigFish

That is a mistake. Commercial fishing is decimating the stocks and I am sorry if it pisses people off but I believe this is reason number 1 why the fall run the last few seasons has sucked and there is a noticeable lack of small fish. All the breeders are being taken. That is my belief and like it or not kiddies I am sticking to it.

Reason number 2 is the 2 fish a day take........we need to roll that back to 1 fish at 36 inches! Nobody needs 2 fish a day.

Recreational fishermen kill a boatload more fish than commercial guys do. WE ARE THE PROBLEM!!!!!! That being said, there is no way we should allow a rise in the commercial take. Both sides should lower their limits

[BigFish]

Well there are more recreational fisherman than commercial. The problem being the size minimum the comms need to take their limit. They are taking more large than the recreational fisherman in my estimation. If I keep 10 fish all year (which is accurate) a comm takes 10 on a day and they are all large (breeders).

As I said and have said since they increased the take to 2 a day......thats more than anyone needs and it should be 1 at 36. This would cut the rec take dramatically!

[iamskippy]

i agree with all points here accept the 1 a day. if u increase to 36 keep it at 2,give the dingo's a fighting chance.

does anyone know of partition websites that can be spamed or mailing addresses?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[afterhours]

stop all this nonsense and give them gamefish status as well as a coastwide limit of 1 @ 36"....and we can't forget the baitfish issues. sidenote- there are waaay too many guys illegally selling backdoor to restaurants and others. take the bounty off the fish and watch them flourish.

it's not rocket science.

[Adam_777]

I've been poking around here and there and I'm not exactly sure it's the com guy that is destroying anything.My angle on this is a bit different.If you fix the bait inshore the bass will come back.The herring,pogies,and squid have been getting pounded into oblivion the last couple years.I know here in RI the pogies come in then DEM's plan that has failed 2 years straight fails and the pogies get wiped out in a few days.The squid show up and 15 draggers show up a mile off newport and take them all until they are gone.Set after set after set.Herring has been bad for years and no longer a reliable sustainable source of forage.What we've had is sand eels off shore by the megaton and the fish just staying out and eating.Doing what they do.Feeding on the easiest most abundant.The bigger bass that are coming in are full of lobster and the local lobster guys barely make enough to cover gas.The truth is the commercial quota isn't the problem.The bass have no food to eat.I am a rec fisherman and have seen both sides of the platter.Picture this if your mind allows.DEM closes pogies for the season.The squid boats are not allowed within 5 miles of the furthest point off the east coast.What would happen when the bays fill with bait? I'm pretty sure it would change most people's view.I have no problem with upping the com take as long as the rec regulations get changed.1 fish a day is fine or "gamefish" is fine .Tag program that allows a certain amount a year would also be fine for me.The commercial take is regulated and the season gets closed when the quota is met.Rec is open,no catch numbers from a large percentage and no closed season.Never mind all of the people rec fishing and selling their catch for cash.Another problem although it's smaller than the bait and bad regulations it still is a problem.Like I said earlier let the bays fill up with bait on the entire coast and then we'll talk about bass population problems and regulations.

Fix the bait first!

[BigFish]

Adam 777 for President of Fisheries Management!!!!

[goosefish]

no fishing within 5 miles--so that would get rid of all state waters commercial fisherman in most states--then all quota would go to the federal larger-sized boats and all fisheries would shift to a winter offshore harvest. I'd be totally against this.

What about rolling closures: close an area, let the fish spawn and then open it again. That seems to be working in the southern Gulf of Maine for groundfish.

It is a slippery slope. Something might make sense for one fishery but make no sense in a another. I contradict myself all the time. Like I think herring boats (which are all federal boats) should be required to fish at least 5 miles off the beaches. Yet when it comes to squid I feel differently. . .

[Fly Rod]

Originally Posted by BigFish

That is a mistake. Commercial fishing is decimating the stocks and I am sorry if it pisses people off but I believe this is reason number 1 why the fall run the last few seasons has sucked and there is a noticeable lack of small fish. All the breeders are being taken. That is my belief and like it or not kiddies I am sticking to it.

Reason number 2 is the 2 fish a day take........we need to roll that back to 1 fish at 36 inches! Nobody needs 2 fish a day.

So you say blame the commercial people.

Your way of thinking is:
Don't you dare blame the recreational fishermen that catch in access of 25 million pounds and has at least a 6 percent fatality rate on released fish.

With them stats your group kills 1,500,000 fish that you think are going to live when you practice catch & release.
And do not give me the crap that the recreational fishermen bring in dollars to motels, restauarants, etc:
Charter boats do the same thing, they bring in monies to motels, restaurants etc. too, guess what, charter boats are commercial fishing, they receive money.

[intrepid24]

....an increase at this point for com seems like a recipe for disaster.
A moratorium should be considered, IMHO.......its starting to seem inevitable anyway.

[BigFish]

There someone goes putting words in my mouth again! Flyrod....not sure how you missed my comments on the recreational community but check your notes, re-read my posts please. This is a controversial issue and people are going to disagree.....I am entitled to my opinions just as you are and I will respect your opinions as long as you respect mine. Just because folks do not agree with someone elses opinion does not make it wrong! So do me a favor and check yourself!

Fly Rod you may also notice I did not comment on the prospect of cutting back the comm quota.........just against the raising of the quota! My only change IS THE RECREATIONAL DAILY TAKE!

[RIROCKHOUND]

Keep the quota as is for now.
1 fish at 36" for recs.
the numbers will come down.

[Adam_777]

The 5 mile scenario was just put out to prove my point that I think the bait is the actual problem here.The people that manage the resources are failing and their decisions are changing migration,spawn and foraging for many different species not just bass.The entire system needs an overhaul.Like said earlier what works for one fishery doesn't for others.Bottom line is no bait=no fish.No bait= fish eat into other fishery's.No bait=bad.Bottom line it's what needs to be fixed.The com quota in some states could be adjusted for fair coverage from all of the other states.I don't see why some of the states with the larger quota's would need an increase .Should be like tug of war if RI gets 100K lbs then a couple of the heavy hitting states should have to lower their overall to make up the difference thus not changing the overall.Until the fishery managers can get accurate stock assessments I don't think an increase in total com take is the right move.Shuffling the take from state to state for now is fine but the problem's will still remain.It's other fishery's impact on the bass that needs to be fixed.So I don't support overall comm increase but I do think they could shuffle the numbers from state to state a bit more.

[piemma]

All good points but I think it was Afterhours who said it best. Give the bass gamefish status and make the limit 1 fish a day. I believe in the 36" or 34" and saw it work in the 80s and early 90s.

In any event, just to reiterate:

Game fish status
No commercial season ....ever
1 fish a day for the recs 34 or 36".

I read a post on the "other" site where this guys bragged that he fishes almost everyday and takes his limit of fish everyday. So if it's 100 days and he takes 2 fish a day then he kills 200 28"+ fish every year. What the hell does he do with that many fish? The man is an idiot and should be banned from this sport.

One other point. I know that there are many guys on this site that are comm. I did it myself in the 70s but it was gas money and bait money and equipment money. It wasn't "make a living money". I have no problem with guys who make a living on the water. I just think the Striped Bass is too valuable of a resource to wantonly slaughtered for commercial or even recreational reasons.

During the moritorium, we that were hard core kept fishing even though we could not keep anything. If you do this thing of ours because you love it, then it doesn't matter if you kill anything. I personally caught well over 200 legal Bass this year. I killed exactly 2 fish that were gut hooked.

We need to apply some sanity or it will be the 80s all over again.

[tattoobob]

Originally Posted by piemma

I read a post on the "other" site where this guys bragged that he fishes almost everyday and takes his limit of fish everyday. So if it's 100 days and he takes 2 fish a day then he kills 200 28"+ fish every year. What the hell does he do with that many fish? The man is an idiot and should be banned from this sport.

I find it hard to believe that someone catches 2 keepers every time he goes fishing

[luds]

Originally Posted by Nebe

Recreational fishermen kill a boatload more fish than commercial guys do. WE ARE THE PROBLEM!!!!!! That being said, there is no way we should allow a rise in the commercial take. Both sides should lower their limits

Agree with everyone thing you said. Unfortunately I don't think anything will change other than golf courses and bars will probably get little more crowded as there are less and less fish to catch.

[Fly Rod]

Originally Posted by BigFish

There someone goes putting words in my mouth again! Flyrod....not sure how you missed my comments on the recreational community but check your notes, re-read my posts please. This is a controversial issue and people are going to disagree.....I am entitled to my opinions just as you are and I will respect your opinions as long as you respect mine. Just because folks do not agree with someone elses opinion does not make it wrong! So do me a favor and check yourself!

Fly Rod you may also notice I did not comment on the prospect of cutting back the comm quota.........just against the raising of the quota! My only change IS THE RECREATIONAL DAILY TAKE!

Everyone is intitled to an opinion and that is gauranteed by our first amendment.

What I commented on was that you stated that the commercials are the number one problem. My quote to you was that they were not.

Here is your quote that I commented on.
Commercial fishing is decimating the stocks and I am sorry if it pisses people off but I believe this is reason number 1.

The south shore may have had not so good a year. We had a great year in deep water and along the shore.

Anyway, pull up to your favorite chair, sit back and enjoy the football games today. You deserve it.

[RIROCKHOUND]

Originally Posted by tattoobob

I find it hard to believe that someone catches 2 keepers every time he goes fishing

You mean, you don't?

1 @ 36. let's start there!

[goosefish]

We just might have some fantastic bluefish years heading our way.

[Clammer]

GF

don,t fu ckin say that ;;

all the talk on bass // rec,s // commercials //

a fish a day // change the size ?/ make it a slot //


all of this is a never ending argument ..

I .m clueless how they can even think about raising the quota of commercial bass ;; even the commercial guy knows the fish is in trouble ;;

the only real answer .. that will fix it once & for all is make it a gamefish ................ then in a few years .......... if they have a few good YOY classes / them there is a good chance we will be back to the 40" fish that ways 20 lbs .

there are too many parts to the puzzle .............................................. but the biggest issue is ... the YOY for the last 4 out of 6 years has really sucked .............................. some of that is the taking of breeders .......... 36" fish is a breeder ;;
the slaughter of the huge fish /off the Virginia coast that are ripe & waiting for their time clock to tell them when to go inshore & spawn .

the Chesapeak it self is in trouble . its tough to breed when there are dead zones / disease & alot of factors other than fishing .

the f #^&#^&#^&#^&#^& rocker scientest . spent 20 years & billions of dollars on trying to restore the C/Bay .. They finally issued a report last year . that it was a complete failure .
one of the main reason is that they identfied many of the polluntants >>> which are coming from the chemicals & cow animal %$%$%$%$ from the farms ........... f #^&#^&#^&#^&#^& nitwits ........ the farmers were [asked] to put up fences to keep their herds from getting to the creeks & rivers ............ yeah right . the red necks went right out and bought 100000 miles of fencing ;
they knew this was happening / that is / nothing was being done .. the farmers said f uck the bay . so they still spent the billions dollars & waited 20 Years pretty much knowing it was going to fail ..

WTF is wrong with these people ;;

[stiff tip]

NOW THE BEST THING
???? ALL THEY HAVE TO DO IS LOWER THE REC SLAUGHTER CATCH BUY 10,000,000 POUNDS AND THE BASS COULD COME BACK FASTER...U BUNCH OF KILLERS

[ProfessorM]

Dave's trolling again, looks like he has some real good bait too.Hopefully he changed his line recently as I got a feeling he could get a big fish

[BigFish]

Originally Posted by Fly Rod

Everyone is intitled to an opinion and that is gauranteed by our first amendment.

What I commented on was that you stated that the commercials are the number one problem. My quote to you was that they were not.

Here is your quote that I commented on.
Commercial fishing is decimating the stocks and I am sorry if it pisses people off but I believe this is reason number 1.

The south shore may have had not so good a year. We had a great year in deep water and along the shore.

Anyway, pull up to your favorite chair, sit back and enjoy the football games today. You deserve it.

Yep I stand behind that! Comms do most of the damage and you will not change my mind on that! Personally I agree with Piemma and it would not bother me one bit to do away with the commercial season!

[WoodyCT]

The sky IS falling. AGAIN!

And if we don't find a way to accept that RECS and COMMS are both killers, thus in the wrong, then history will repeat itself.

And then Washington will take radical measures to protect the resource from fishermen, all fishermen, after the stocks are driven to collapse.

WE must regulate ourselves and become politically active if WE want to preserve our fishery.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[striperman36]

I agree with Clammer and with the current management I do not think you'll ever get a change to gamefish status
Most of that runoff into the Bay is from the poultry business, Purdue makes their contract growers deal the crap. = to about an additional 4.5 million people flushing raw sewage into Cheasapeake Bay.
Manure becomes pollutant as its volume grows unmanageable

[stiff tip]

Originally Posted by BigFish

Yep I stand behind that! Comms do most of the damage and you will not change my mind on that! Personally I agree with Piemma and it would not bother me one bit to do away with the commercial season!

also NO more fishing with artifical plugs too!!only biodegradable worms and barbless hooks... plus no one can touch keep, or w/o rose color glasses look at bass.....heres how i c it 1.2 million lbs for the comm. hoars. who sell for money those sinners and 13.5 million for the rec pigs who always keep more than need.and barroom bounce the 40lber they caught right into the dumpster. imo at lease i respecept the value of the fish. chew on that knot a while

[The Dad Fisherman]

This thread is the Prime example of what the real problem is....nobody can get there %$%$%$%$e together and get on the same page.

These threads pop up every few months and they always follow the same Template..

"My way is the Right way, your way is the wrong way, and its the other guys fault"

Maybe if you guys changed the template to read...

"I have some ideas that with the addition of your ideas, and if we both accept responsibilty for the issue, may be able to fix this"

In all honesty the only way to make sure that Striped Bass thrive....is to take up golf.

[JakeF]

Originally Posted by piemma

I am just amazed at the level of stupidity being displayed by ASMFC



"on November 9th the Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission will vote on on the proposal to expand the coastal commercial quota for striped bass. Stripers Forever is strongly opposed to this idea on all grounds. Here are the states that voted in favor of this commercial expansion in past meetings:


North Carolina, Virginia, Maryland, Delaware, New York, Rhode Island, Connecticut


The vote in favor was 10 to 6, so we need to change two votes in order for the increase to be denied - other districts and organizations have votes also.

I've been following this closely, and have stayed in direct contact with Nichola Meserve, the Fisheries Management Plan Coordinator for striped bass, since the hearings on this subject which I know some of you attended.

Despite which side of the table you're on, I think it's important to point out that what you read above is not exactly true. On November 9th, the ASMFC Management Board will be reviewing the public comment received (which I'll touch on below), and make their descision. Individual states have no vote in their decision. The states mentioned above simply voted in favor of sending the proposed Ammendment II to Article 6 to the ASMFC Technical Committe, Management board, and public comment.

If the ASMFC decides to allow commercial increase (which is only one of the issues on the table here), THEN each state will have the option of either implementing the allowed increase or not.

In other words, if they DO decide to allow an increase in the coastal commercial quota, there will then be work to be done on a state by state level as each state will have to decide if they will change their regulations to use the allowed increase or not.

Here is Ms. Meserve's email to me, after the close of the public comment period, when I asked for her feelings of the general consensus of the public comments received.

SubjectRe: Question - Striped Bass Draft Addendum II
Sendernmeserve@asmfc.org
Recipientjake@stripercoastsurfcasters.us
Date15.10.2010 11:29

Hi Jacob,

You have excellent timing, as I just finished summarizing the comments yesterday. Including comments received at hearings and via mail/email/fax, the total count is over 2200 comments. The vast majority of comments supported Option 1- Status Quo for Issue 1- Coastal Commercial Quotas, and Option 2- Revise the Definition for Issue 2 - Recruitment Failure Definition. A public comment summary with the tally by state and in total, along with the reasons given in support of the options will be included in the Management Board's briefing materials, which should be available on the ASMFC website within 1-2 weeks. The Management Board will meet on November 9 to review the comment and vote on the options in the draft addendum.

Regards,
Nichola

Nichola Meserve
Fisheries Management Plan Coordinator
Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission
ph: (202) 289-6400 f: (202) 289-6051