Gods Intention

[buckman]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

There is no possible way to spin any result of a rape as Gods intention.

Unless Spince gets involved in the discussion.

Not true if you believe that God has a plan for everything or if you believe life begins at conception. Would you kill a baby after he or she is born just because he or she has been conceived as a result of rape? To some it's the same and with legitimate reason.
Not judging either way
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[Jim in CT]

Politically speaking, it's an incredibly stupid thing to say.

I'mnot sure his point, if I understand it correctly, is all that deranged. Anti death penalty folks are mostly opposed to the death penalty because it's immoral to kill a human. If one person is a decent person, and the other is a murderer, the anti-death-penalty advocate says that both are equally deserving if life. There's a lot of logic to that.

Similarly, those who are anti-abortion, can make a case that the details of conception are irrelevent. If the baby is a human being, then it is entitled to protections, regardless of the level of consent involved in the conception. Is a person born of rape less of a person than other people?

I'm not sayng I agree, just arguing for the sake of arguing...

[Sea Dangles]

It is too bad you are missing the point here.
There have been enough advances and contributions from people who were "mistakes".There is certainly nobody alive who is less of a person,regardless of conception. But to characterize it as Gods will under those circumstances is reckless and deranged.

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

It is too bad you are missing the point here.

It's not that your point is being missed. It's that your point is being disputed.

There have been enough advances and contributions from people who were "mistakes".There is certainly nobody alive who is less of a person,regardless of conception.

Excellent point, and tending toward the argument that disputes your real point which is:

But to characterize it as Gods will under those circumstances is reckless and deranged.

So you claim to know God's will more than Mourdock/Murdoch?

The counter argument is that pregnancy is a result of sexual union, and that the result is not dependent on human laws or social restrictions or personal preferences or "horrible situations". If you believe in God, it would not be reckless or deranged to believe that the process, being His creation, is His will. It would be a contradiction to say that it wasn't. The same would apply to those who believe in "nature" and its "evolution" in which the process of pregnancy as a result of sexual union is the same regardless of "horrible situations."

As for what humans do with God's creation (if you believe your god has given them free will)--that is a matter of consequences either for trespassing His will by doing harm to his creation (which includes other human beings) and reaping his punishment for disobedience--as might be exemplifed by the rapist; or by suffering the "horrible situations" that others impose in order to abide by His will and reaping His reward--as might be exemplified by the girl that jackbass knew who lovingly raised her child who was conceived as a result of rape.

That is all to say that Murdoch's remark was not meant to mean that rape is God's will, it is to say that the process of creating new life is God's creation and therefore His will. How we treat that creation, is not His will, but the free will He has given us and by which we will be judged.

And as a Senator in the Federal Government, he would not have, as Romney states, power to impose those beliefs on others. Reproductive "rights" are the domain of the states not the Federal Government--that is if you abide by the Constitution.

[Sea Dangles]

Originally Posted by buckman

Not true if you believe that God has a plan for everything or if you believe life begins at conception. Would you kill a baby after he or she is born just because he or she has been conceived as a result of rape? To some it's the same and with legitimate reason.
Not judging either way
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

If God has a plan for people to get raped and pregnant why is he so popular?

[buckman]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

If God has a plan for people to get raped and pregnant why is he so popular?

You'll have to ask a higher power then me .
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[FormerUser]

If you believe that a child conceived by rape is god's will you are a fvcking lunatic plane and simple.

Well with the "god's will" mentality anything is now acceptable.All the pain,destruction and stupidity that happens everyday must be god's will!Sh!t that splinter I got today at work must be god's will.

God's will is the pussy's way out of making a real decision.If my wife or child were raped and conception occurred no child would ever be born as the result.....NOT EVER.

[buckman]

Originally Posted by basswipe

If you believe that a child conceived by rape is god's will you are a fvcking lunatic plane and simple.

Well with the "god's will" mentality anything is now acceptable.All the pain,destruction and stupidity that happens everyday must be god's will!Sh!t that splinter I got today at work must be god's will.

God's will is the pussy's way out of making a real decision.If my wife or child were raped and conception occurred no child would ever be born as the result.....NOT EVER.

Are you saying a child conceived through rape does not deserve a chance at life?
Btw I do not have a position in the abortion fight. Every situation is different and I won't judge others
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[FormerUser]

Originally Posted by buckman

Are you saying a child conceived through rape does not deserve a chance at life?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Yes.

[buckman]

Originally Posted by basswipe

Yes.

I know someone very special to me who was and I'm very happy you were not part of there life or be killed decision

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by basswipe

If you believe that a child conceived by rape is god's will you are a fvcking lunatic plane and simple.

Well with the "god's will" mentality anything is now acceptable.All the pain,destruction and stupidity that happens everyday must be god's will!Sh!t that splinter I got today at work must be god's will.

God's will is the pussy's way out of making a real decision.If my wife or child were raped and conception occurred no child would ever be born as the result.....NOT EVER.

Basswipe, what if you were conceived via rape? Would you rather be aborted, or brought into the world?

The 'Gods will' argument doesn't mean that anything immoral is acceptable. It just implies that things happen for a reason, even though that reason often isn't clear in the here and now. That's where 'faith' comes in. The fact that events are God's will doesn't mean that we don't have free will, and it doesn't mean that certain things are wrong.

This post says as much about you as Murdoch's statement says about him.

[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

It just implies that things happen for a reason, even though that reason often isn't clear in the here and now. That's where 'faith' comes in.

This is just as completely demented as the original remarks.

-spence

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by spence

This is just as completely demented as the original remarks.

-spence

And what higher authority do you have to pronounce someone elses words as demented without demonstrating why, and why your remark isn't?

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

This is just as completely demented as the original remarks.

-spence

Spence, you subscribe to a political philosophy that claims that a mass murderer has the right to live, but not an unborn baby. As such, I am not surprised that you cannot comprehend my view that all human life, refardless of the circumstances of conception, is a precious, unique, irreplacable gift from God.

If someone like you thinks I'm 'demented', that's the most sure way I can think of, to know that I'm in the right.

[FormerUser]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Basswipe, what if you were conceived via rape? Would you rather be aborted, or brought into the world?

The 'Gods will' argument doesn't mean that anything immoral is acceptable. It just implies that things happen for a reason, even though that reason often isn't clear in the here and now. That's where 'faith' comes in. The fact that events are God's will doesn't mean that we don't have free will, and it doesn't mean that certain things are wrong.

This post says as much about you as Murdoch's statement says about him.

Yes I would rather be aborted.

As to the rest of your post it is completely meaningless to me as I have no "faith" and I do not believe in god,I'm a realist.

And I don't really care what my statement says about me in your mind.

[Nebe]

Originally Posted by basswipe

Yes I would rather be aborted.

As to the rest of your post it is completely meaningless to me as I have no "faith" and I do not believe in god,I'm a realist.

And I don't really care what my statement says about me in your mind.

Couldn't agree more with you.

My take on this is the child should have a "chance". And by chance, I mean the mother should always under any circumstance have the option to chose weather she has a child or not.
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[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

If God has a plan for people to get raped and pregnant why is he so popular?

because he also made salma....