Time man of the year

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by spence

Things aren't perfect here at home but all the doom and gloom is just a lack of belief in the American spirit.

Suck it haters.

-spence

A lack of "believe in the American spirit"? Obama is the last person someone can defend and then state his critics lack believe in the American spirit. Someone that supports a complete disregard for civil liberties and the Constitution would be a better fit for the claim "lacks American spirit."

Here's the short list of the Constitutional scholar, Barack Obama's actions that directly contradict someone that appreciates and respects a sense of the American Spirit:
- Expanded drone attacks in sovereign countries
- Drones over American skies
- Consistent push for NDAA
- Approval and expansion of warrantless surveillance of Americans
- A microstep away from socialized medicine
- Broken promises of a transparent Administration
- The assassination of an American citizen without trial
- Indefinite detention of Bradley Manning
- Expanded support and funding of the TSA's "airport security" charade

I didn't even touch upon his open support for keeping people on the government's dole as opposed to lifting themselves up and working to improve their lives - something that could be argued is the biggest violation of the "American Spirit" within his agenda.

Sure seems as though those that support Obama's agenda are the ones with a lack of "American Spirit" - claiming otherwise is a complete misunderstanding of what the American Spirit actually is and the liberties for which the country was founded on.

[Mr. Sandman]

I can't wait to go off this fiscal cliff... Besides the world is suppose to end I think on the 21st anyway (Mayan calender) so it really should not be all that bad for much longer.

peace-------

[buckman]

Originally Posted by Mr. Sandman

I can't wait to go off this fiscal cliff... Besides the world is suppose to end I think on the 21st anyway (Mayan calender) so it really should not be all that bad for much longer.

peace-------

My friends on the other side of the world are still here......sorry
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[justplugit]

Originally Posted by buckman

Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

"who reads Time."

LOL, I do,Buck, when my chinnese take out food isn't ready yet.
Good for some laughs.

[spence]

Originally Posted by fishbones

Sometimes I wonder if you just say stuff and hope no one calls you out on it, or if you really are that dense? I'm pretty sure you're not that dense.

Heavy equipment in the US sells a lot to China and other emerging nations...that's not to say they don't have competition.

-spence

[fishbones]

Originally Posted by spence

Heavy equipment in the US sells a lot to China and other emerging nations...that's not to say they don't have competition.

-spence

We'll leave other countries out of it because you specifically referred to China. Caterpillar has a very small market share in China. The Chinese companies are much more prevalent, and the Japanese companies have a greater market share than Caterpillar. Stop responding with your jibberish, vague, non-answers.

[The Dad Fisherman]

https://www.uschina.org/statistics/tradetable.html

[spence]

Originally Posted by fishbones

We'll leave other countries out of it because you specifically referred to China. Caterpillar has a very small market share in China. The Chinese companies are much more prevalent, and the Japanese companies have a greater market share than Caterpillar. Stop responding with your jibberish, vague, non-answers.

I believe CAT has at least 12 manufacturing plants in China and over 8,000 employees. It represents a substantial part of their growth strategy.

These investments have a big impact on jobs in Peoria. The net is that any way you shake it, development in emerging markets has a big impact on the US economy...

Perhaps you should sub out your googling to ScottW

-spence

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by spence

I believe CAT has at least 12 manufacturing plants in China and over 8,000 employees. It represents a substantial part of their growth strategy.

These investments have a big impact on jobs in Peoria. The net is that any way you shake it, development in emerging markets has a big impact on the US economy...

-spence

Phew!! Glad you've finally put to rest that non-sense about "shipping jobs overseas", especially to China, costing Americans jobs. Those 8,000 jobs in Peoria instead of China would look really nice right about now. Of course, then, China wouldn't have bought the CAT stuff if it was made here because greedy, mean, right wing presidents wouldn't have forced them to. That's one of the reasons we voted for Obama, no? To stop jobs from being shipped overseas, and to make China trade "fairly" with us?

But all is well now, anyway, because CAT's "investments" in China will have a big impact on jobs in Peoria. After all, Obama will see to it that those investments are taxed at higher, fairer, rates, and that will create more "revenue" to distribute to unemployed and needy Americans.

[spence]

Originally Posted by detbuch

Phew!! Glad you've finally put to rest that non-sense about "shipping jobs overseas", especially to China, costing Americans jobs. Those 8,000 jobs in Peoria instead of China would look really nice right about now. Of course, then, China wouldn't have bought the CAT stuff if it was made here because greedy, mean, right wing presidents wouldn't have forced them to. That's one of the reasons we voted for Obama, no? To stop jobs from being shipped overseas, and to make China trade "fairly" with us?

But all is well now, anyway, because CAT's "investments" in China will have a big impact on jobs in Peoria. After all, Obama will see to it that those investments are taxed at higher, fairer, rates, and that will create more "revenue" to distribute to unemployed and needy Americans.

Perhaps many of those jobs don't belong here.

They likely manufacture locally to be more responsive to the market, take advantage of local labor, local materials and perhaps more importantly avoid the costs associated with transport of heavy raw materials, finished product and extended supply chain and service components.

Yet, the profit from such ventures is sent to the USA where it can finance expansion and higher paying jobs at home that are the innovation engine of the company.

And Mitt Romney said he was going to get tough...with who again?

-spence

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by spence

Yet, the profit from such ventures is sent to the USA where it can finance expansion and higher paying jobs at home that are the innovation engine of the company.
-spence

You must be mistaken. Those higher paying jobs are only held by people that got there by stomping on the heads of those below them. Those with higher paying jobs don't actually contribute to the economy, that's why we should tax them >50% of their income. I mean, they have never really done any work so why should they keep the money they earn?

Btw, I see you're going to ignore my reply to your "lack of American Spirit" nonsense just as you did with ignoring what's so bad about giving people a choice not to join unions.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

Btw, I see you're going to ignore my reply to your "lack of American Spirit" nonsense just as you did with ignoring what's so bad about giving people a choice not to join unions.

He'll answer that, right after he tells you why it's bad to let Americns choose if they want to be in a union.

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by spence

Perhaps many of those jobs don't belong here.

They likely manufacture locally to be more responsive to the market, take advantage of local labor, local materials and perhaps more importantly avoid the costs associated with transport of heavy raw materials, finished product and extended supply chain and service components.

Yet, the profit from such ventures is sent to the USA where it can finance expansion and higher paying jobs at home that are the innovation engine of the company.

When greedy business and evil Republicans were supposed to be responsible for shipping jobs overseas they were not only able to "take advantage of local labor, local materials" and even with the cost of transport of materials and finished products, etc., they were still able to "profit from such ventures" to "finance expansion and higher paying jobs at home that are the innovation engine of the company." So then, I guess those jobs that were shipped overseas pre-Obama also "many of those jobs don't belong here." Maybe all that gibberish about shipping jobs overseas was poo-poo to get folks like Obama elected. As I said, glad that you were able to put to rest that nonsense.

Gee, I wonder with such wondrous profit making dynamics, which jobs do belong here.

And Mitt Romney said he was going to get tough...with who again?

-spence

What on earth does Romney have to do with it. He lost. Why talk about losers. Aren't the winners the relevant ones, the ones who move and shake? Wasn't Romney accused of shipping jobs overseas? I guess THAT was a bad thing.

[Slipknot]

hard to read and not shake my head with all the spin from spence

[scottw]

Originally Posted by spence

Perhaps you should sub out your googling to ScottW

-spence

or just make it up as you go along.... like Spence

[fishbones]

Originally Posted by spence

I believe CAT has at least 12 manufacturing plants in China and over 8,000 employees. It represents a substantial part of their growth strategy.

These investments have a big impact on jobs in Peoria. The net is that any way you shake it, development in emerging markets has a big impact on the US economy...

Perhaps you should sub out your googling to ScottW

-spence

Ok, Spence. This is comical, even for a post from you. You stated that the Chinese are likely using Caterpillar machines for their big construction projects. I pointed out that Caterpillar has a very small market share there as compared to the 2 large Chinese heavy equipment makers. Then you say that heavy equipment in the US sells a lot to China, which in no way backs up your original statement. China does not buy a lot of US made equipment because they buy Chinese made equipment. Now you claim that US companies are building their equipment in China. You really have no clue. How does it go from China using a lot of American made heavy equipment to US companies building their equipment in China and sending it back here? And how's that benefiting the US? Wouldn't Peoria be better off if they kept all the jobs there?

Maybe you should have RIROCKHOUND's new baby do your googling for you. It's bound to be better than whatever you're doing.

[spence]

Originally Posted by fishbones

Ok, Spence. This is comical, even for a post from you. You stated that the Chinese are likely using Caterpillar machines for their big construction projects. I pointed out that Caterpillar has a very small market share there as compared to the 2 large Chinese heavy equipment makers. Then you say that heavy equipment in the US sells a lot to China, which in no way backs up your original statement. China does not buy a lot of US made equipment because they buy Chinese made equipment. Now you claim that US companies are building their equipment in China. You really have no clue. How does it go from China using a lot of American made heavy equipment to US companies building their equipment in China and sending it back here? And how's that benefiting the US? Wouldn't Peoria be better off if they kept all the jobs there?

Maybe you should have RIROCKHOUND's new baby do your googling for you. It's bound to be better than whatever you're doing.

There are many companies that sell heavy equipment in China, some are Chinese, some are Korean, some are Japanese, some are American. That a company like CAT doesn't dominate the market is irrelevant to the point at hand unless you want to parse a single word to to make trouble.

Quite simply, assembly in China doesn't mean there aren't thousands and thousands more here in the US involved in design and planning.

Do you seriously lake the fundamentals of how a global manufacturing business operates? It sure sounds like you do.

-spence

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by fishbones

Ok, Spence. This is comical, even for a post from you. You stated that the Chinese are likely using Caterpillar machines for their big construction projects. I pointed out that Caterpillar has a very small market share there as compared to the 2 large Chinese heavy equipment makers. Then you say that heavy equipment in the US sells a lot to China, which in no way backs up your original statement. China does not buy a lot of US made equipment because they buy Chinese made equipment. Now you claim that US companies are building their equipment in China. You really have no clue. How does it go from China using a lot of American made heavy equipment to US companies building their equipment in China and sending it back here? And how's that benefiting the US? Wouldn't Peoria be better off if they kept all the jobs there?

Maybe you should have RIROCKHOUND's new baby do your googling for you. It's bound to be better than whatever you're doing.

If I can respond on Spence's behalf...

You're an ignorantracisthatemongerbigotsexisthomophobeislamo phobeintoleranthatecrimes!

P.S. Suck on that

[RIJIMMY]

man, spence has gone off the deep end
Thanks guys - this IS cheering me up!

[fishbones]

Originally Posted by spence

There are many companies that sell heavy equipment in China, some are Chinese, some are Korean, some are Japanese, some are American. That a company like CAT doesn't dominate the market is irrelevant to the point at hand unless you want to parse a single word to to make trouble.

Quite simply, assembly in China doesn't mean there aren't thousands and thousands more here in the US involved in design and planning.

Do you seriously lake the fundamentals of how a global manufacturing business operates? It sure sounds like you do.

-spence

I see you're at it again. You originally stated that CAT equipment is most likely being used at large Chinese construction projects. I pointed out you are wrong. Then you started squirming around trying to change your original statement because you looked foolish. Now you start saying I "lake" fundamentals of how a global manufacturing business operates. You're quite wrong again.

I'll ask one simple question that I would like a straight forward, yes or no answer without the typical Spence circular logic. Would the 8,000 CAT manufacturing jobs currently in China help the people of Peoria if they were brought back home?

BTW, if you need more tranny porn for your stocking suffers, I can email you some very disturbing stuff, or just ask WPTMafia. He has all the bookmarks on his phone.

[spence]

Originally Posted by fishbones

I see you're at it again. You originally stated that CAT equipment is most likely being used at large Chinese construction projects. I pointed out you are wrong. Then you started squirming around trying to change your original statement because you looked foolish. Now you start saying I "lake" fundamentals of how a global manufacturing business operates. You're quite wrong again.

The initial remarks were if global expansion benefited US business...and as I've indicated it certainly does. Swap "most likely" with "possibly" and your argument vanishes because you hadn't made a single point to refute my claim.

You still haven't by the way.

I do like your assertion that the Chinese only buy Chinese equipment even though CAT has over a half dozen plants in country...an investment strategy to capture Chinese market share

What do you think all those people are doing?

I'll ask one simple question that I would like a straight forward, yes or no answer without the typical Spence circular logic. Would the 8,000 CAT manufacturing jobs currently in China help the people of Peoria if they were brought back home?

To answer that question you'd have to assess if the company could afford to hire skilled workers, absorb increased material, shipping and support costs and be responsive to local markets and competitive pressures...while still turning a profit.

The answer is likely not, otherwise they would have already done it.

Additionally, without a Chinese manufacturing presence do you think their government would have any incentive to give us favorable trade conditions or would Chinese investors have much of any incentive to award contracts to foreign suppliers?

The answer again is likely not.

Yes, some companies do go overseas for cheaper labor or to avoid regulatory pressure, but for many global manufactures it's a growth strategy that would be impossible given the logistical and political challenges of operating from afar.

Bones, please keep pounding on that one word, in this argument it's really about all you've got

-spence

[fishbones]

Now you're just lying and trying to put words in my mouth. Since I'm in the holiday spirit, I'll stop embarrassing you and let you continue to do it yourself.

[spence]

Originally Posted by fishbones

Now you're just lying and trying to put words in my mouth. Since I'm in the holiday spirit, I'll stop embarrassing you and let you continue to do it yourself.

You've executed the ScottW playbook to a tee.

Try and blind them with bull#^&#^&#^&#^&, and when that doesn't work declare victory and leave. You even have the correct emoticon

-spence

[spence]

Originally Posted by detbuch

When greedy business and evil Republicans were supposed to be responsible for shipping jobs overseas they were not only able to "take advantage of local labor, local materials" and even with the cost of transport of materials and finished products, etc., they were still able to "profit from such ventures" to "finance expansion and higher paying jobs at home that are the innovation engine of the company." So then, I guess those jobs that were shipped overseas pre-Obama also "many of those jobs don't belong here." Maybe all that gibberish about shipping jobs overseas was poo-poo to get folks like Obama elected. As I said, glad that you were able to put to rest that nonsense.

Depends on the company and industry. Certainly some jobs have been move purely for cost reasons. In other cases jobs have been created where it makes more sense. As I've noted this isn't always a bad thing for Americans.

-spence

[fishbones]

RIJimmy's right. Spence, you've lost it man. As much as I enjoy watching you flail around in here making no sense, I kind of feel bad. It's like watching a boxer who's way behind on the scorecards keep getting the crap beat out of him, yet his corner doesn't realize they should have thrown in the towel several rounds ago.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by spence

You've executed the ScottW playbook to a tee.

Try and blind them with bull#^&#^&#^&#^&, and when that doesn't work declare victory and leave.
-spence

"You might be a progressive ideologue if:


3. You are a master at projecting or "transferring" what could be your problem or attitude (but not really) on to others.

10. You are certain that you never ever operate from an ideological position."